The Trump presidency is in a hole

[java]

Does your benefit not require money? I am more interested in what works in practice, versus what should work, or what I wish would work.

In that respect I don't think it much matters whether healthcare is an inalienable right. Universal access to healthcare, as a practical matter, is an essential feature of any modern nation. If your country doesn't feature it, your country is second rate. It is really that simple!!!

Oh where to even start with you, what benefit of mine are you talking about? All benefits cost money. Rights are free. If it doesn't matter if healthcare is a right then stop calling it a right and we can get on with it. The only people in the United States who don't have access to healthcare are the Veterans in the government healthcare system. If it's just access you are worried about then the only possible role of the government would be to provide armed guards at abortion clinics. You keep doing this slippery little word shell game when you imply society, government, and nation are all one and the same. They are not interchangeable. You keep ascribing responsibilities to the government which should be the responsibility of society. If the government wasn't doing enough I would be right there with you anxiously awaiting each election to see what they are going to do for me next. But glad you have seen the light and thrown in the towel and acknowledged that healthcare is not a right. Now we can move on and discuss improving access to healthcare.

 

[piezoe]

The media have done this all by themselves. I know you like to patronize us to make yourself feel so sophisticated, but I read the WashPost every day. It's no longer a newspaper in he traditional sense of providing factual news. It is all about advancing various leftwing agendas, eg Trump hate, war with Russia, AGW, every conceivable LGBQXYZwhatever, racial divisiveness open borders, etc.

The mainstream media have been biased all my life. There are two major differences now. One, we have alternate sources, which the mainstream media bitterly resent. They view their role as setting the agenda, deciding what is newsworthy and what is not. They have lost much of that power and they are furious about that, so they attack the alternative media and try to discredit them.

Two, the media are not at all concerned with the truth. It is all about winning, specifically beating Trump. They hate Trump more than they did Richard Nixon. They will do and say anything to beat him.

The NYTimes isowned by the richest man in mexico, Carlos Slim. The WashPo is owned by billionaire Jeff Bezos, whose amazon business is largely based on selling cheap crap from china. No conflicts there. The TV and cable nets are run by a group of men who are, shall we say, not very religiously diverse. Unsurprisingly, they all, even Fox News, advance a narrative that is at odds with the way most of the country see things. But is all due to Russian interference no doubt.

Yet more proof. What more proof of the success of the Russian alternative fact brigade do you want? What puzzles me is that the real facts are available at your finger tips, yet you guys don't take the 15 seconds it takes to check them out. Instead you believe, without questioning, all that crap.

 

[piezoe]

You pushed the button before you were done editing and I'm too fast? Ok, I'll go back and start all over, the only thing it is keeping me from is preparing my fathers taxes, but to cut to the chase, my right to bear arms does not mean you or the government have to buy me a gun. The rights are enumerated to put the government on notice that they must not infringe. The government is not required to provide me with life or liberty, they just can't take what little liberty and life I have left away.

The government, meaning the rest of us, can try, and then wait and see if your going to let us.

 

[piezoe]

you imply society, government, and nation are all one and the same

yup. Those are the collective nouns. As an individual you're just a piece of those collections. A surly one at that.

 

[piezoe]

acknowledged that healthcare is not a right

Wait a minute. I thought you considered it an inalienable right??? My position is it really doesn't matter. No first rate country denies its citizens access to routine healthcare because they don't have enough money. That was my point. By my measure, the U.S. is a second rate country, or at least tries real hard to be!

 

[java]

Wait a minute. I thought you considered it an inalienable right??? My position is it really doesn't matter. No first rate country denies its citizens access to routine healthcare because they don't have enough money. That was my point. By my measure, the U.S. is a second rate country, or at least tries real hard to be!

I don't really know what inalienable means, but if it means I had it before you and your government ever came along I don't need you to give it to me. I am a part, just one member of society, that's one group I belong to. I am also a part of We the People who run our government. I am also a citizen of a nation. To reply to another post. Now you are trying hard to steer the conversation to healthcare and that's fine with me as long as we don't start from the very gitgo that somehow it is your right and I must pay for it.

 

[Cuddles]

I don't really know what inalienable means, but if it means I had it before you and your government ever came along I don't need you to give it to me. I am a part, just one member of society, that's one group I belong to. I am also a part of We the People who run our government. I am also a citizen of a nation. To reply to another post. Now you are trying hard to steer the conversation to healthcare and that's fine with me as long as we don't start from the very gitgo that somehow it is your right and I must pay for it.

What happens when someone's health deteriorates from a gunshot would because someone was exercising their inalienable right?

 

[java]

What happens when someone's health deteriorates from a gunshot would because someone was exercising their inalienable right?

Both the wounder and the woundee will be subject to investigation and if any wrong doing is alleged may be prosecuted, then jailed or even put to death by the State. That good enough for you? Don't push it because I am running out of legaleeze to misuse.

 

[trendlover]

[QUOTE="java, post: 4434933, member: 494827" A right is inalienable. Nobody can give it to you and nobody has to pay for my rights.



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(Life, Liberty and the pursuit of happiness) is "give" to you from the taxpayers money to protect your countries peoples (rights.) Taxpayer money is to pay for military (liberty) and (life) to have happiness. Why is health care not the priority to be a right?

 

[trendlover]

The freedoms you have in the USA is "paid for" from the mostly poor and low middle class enlistment to military. YOU say no one should pay for other peoples life. But the poor and middle class do pay that price. And it is not YOU paying for that, is your claim.. It is the poor and middle class in the military. They pay that price.