Yes, it was addressed "Return to Sender."
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The Surf Report
- Thread starter marketsurfer
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Quote from Thunderdog:
Yes, it was addressed "Return to Sender."
a blast from the past, all killer with no filler:
thunderdog offers:
<b>----I am not familiar with chaos theory, therefore, I cannot comment one way or the other about it. I am out of my depth on the subject. (Are you listening, marketsurfer?)
However, I think that describing the markets as a physical entity in the context of trading them using principles of physical science may be a bit misguided. Market prices, which in the final analysis is what we are all concerned about, are just manifestations of collective human behavior. Human behavior is not readily explained by the physical sciences as I vaguely understand them. As I noted, I am not familiar at all with chaos theory. However, as I understand it, the "if-then" relationships in the markets are a lot more tenuous than the "if-then" relationships in, say, physics. Beyond that confined observation, I do not consider myself qualified to comment. </b>
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<b>marketsurfer counters leaving no survivors:</b>
collective human behavior --very old school and indicative of your world view.
yes, back in the day, prior to the huge pools, sometimes called hedge funds, driven by quant program trading, and often just the whim of the manager. it's "collective money behavior" not collective human behavior--as one human now can have the market moving power of 1000's of others. your analysis is quite old fashion.
surf
surf
It started with a post from that fine ass annaland, then came your reply, and I then posted my charts and explanation to show that Surf's concept, of Trend Drift is probably the most accurate description of price action, and can be traded successfully, provided one is able to determine the correct drift in the trend.Quote from Thunderdog:
JJ,
Forgive me, but I'm not sure I understand your disagreement with me. All I see is nice trending price action on a colorful chart suitable for framing.
Funny, I would have thought it was very clear.
Oh well, see you at the open.
Good trading,
Jimmy Jam
What possible bearing does your response have to my questioning the use of physics in trading? I can see quite clearly that you counter by leaving no survivors. However, perhaps you should take a moment and see which side you are shooting at.Quote from marketsurfer:
a blast from the past, all killer with no filler:
thunderdog offers:
<b>----I am not familiar with chaos theory, therefore, I cannot comment one way or the other about it. I am out of my depth on the subject. (Are you listening, marketsurfer?)
However, I think that describing the markets as a physical entity in the context of trading them using principles of physical science may be a bit misguided. Market prices, which in the final analysis is what we are all concerned about, are just manifestations of collective human behavior. Human behavior is not readily explained by the physical sciences as I vaguely understand them. As I noted, I am not familiar at all with chaos theory. However, as I understand it, the "if-then" relationships in the markets are a lot more tenuous than the "if-then" relationships in, say, physics. Beyond that confined observation, I do not consider myself qualified to comment. </b>
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<b>marketsurfer counters leaving no survivors:</b>
collective human behavior --very old school and indicative of your world view.
yes, back in the day, prior to the huge pools, sometimes called hedge funds, driven by quant program trading, and often just the whim of the manager. it's "collective money behavior" not collective human behavior--as one human now can have the market moving power of 1000's of others. your analysis is quite old fashion.
surf
surf
I have no idea how you attribute a concept called Trend Drift to anything that marketsurfer does in the markets. The first thing that comes to mind when I think of Trend Drift is the idea of trading in the direction of the underlying trend that is drifting, entering at the conclusion of a counter ripple. (Hey, that's just my free association take on the matter.) Where there is a trend drift there is, by definition, a trend. However, surfer does not trade in the direction of an existing trend, drift or otherwise. He is a self-proclaimed trend anticipator (his words, not mine). Anyone who is employing a concept even remotely related to a trend drift would not be experiencing the kind of heat that surfer does, not only for his losing trades but even his occasional winning ones at the outset. So while I read your words and see surfer's trades, I see no connection between the two.Quote from JimmyJam:
It started with a post from that fine ass annaland, then came your reply, and I then posted my charts and explanation to show that Surf's concept, of Trend Drift is probably the most accurate description of price action, and can be traded successfully, provided one is able to determine the correct drift in the trend.
Funny, I would have thought it was very clear.
Oh well, see you at the open.
Good trading,
Jimmy Jam
The thing you need to recognize is that the word drift can be used in different contexts and that marketsurfer will pick and choose the one that suits him at the moment (Situational Semantics TM):
http://www.answers.com/drift?cat=technology
He prides himself on his "flexibility." Surfer missed his calling. He would have made a fine tobacco lawyer.
i am staying SHORT here in the YM.
a down or slightly up close in the DJIA is likely per our projections.
if not, we are still holding with stops @ 13207 for today.
holding LULU long----
surf
a down or slightly up close in the DJIA is likely per our projections.
if not, we are still holding with stops @ 13207 for today.
holding LULU long----
surf
Quote from Thunderdog:
I have no idea how you attribute a concept called Trend Drift to anything that marketsurfer does in the markets. The first thing that comes to mind when I think of Trend Drift is the idea of trading in the direction of the underlying trend that is drifting, entering at the conclusion of a counter ripple. (Hey, that's just my free association take on the matter.) Where there is a trend drift there is, by definition, a trend. However, surfer does not trade in the direction of an existing trend, drift or otherwise. He is a self-proclaimed trend anticipator (his words, not mine). Anyone who is employing a concept even remotely related to a trend drift would not be experiencing the kind of heat that surfer does, not only for his losing trades but even his occasional winning ones at the outset. So while I read your words and see surfer's trades, I see no connection between the two.
What he does may be one thing, but here is what he said:
The post stuck-out because he was insulting Tracy McGreedy (not cool), but then they worked it out as the two of them went more depth into the concepts being discussed. Hell, Tracy even gave'em some pointers on how he might establish his trading identy better.Quote from marketsurfer:
allow me to clarify, ms.greedy.
once a directional position is opened, ofcourse one needs to be on the right side of the directional movement. sticking with the drift is the way to go, this is RIDING THE TREND/DRIFT, not TREND FOLLOWING. TF is a specific method per those who write about such things. i dont believe in the entry methods of trend followers, et al. ---but holding a position works, ofcourse. buy/sell and hold.
Trend Followers TOOK A BATH buying the top tick in the YM etc recently.
regards,
surf
Well anyways, there it is, first time on Elite Trader, out of Surf's "mouth".
GT,
JJ
Quote from JimmyJam:
What he does may be one thing, but here is what he said:
The post stuck-out because he was insulting Tracy McGreedy (not cool), but then they worked it out as the two of them went more depth into the concepts being discussed. Hell, Tracy even gave'em some pointers on how he might establish his trading identy better.
Well anyways, there it is, first time on Elite Trader, out of Surf's "mouth".
GT,
JJ
I know. This journal is a joke.
All one has to do is search Smurf's posts and the contradictions just flow.
He has no clue what a Tick/Tic bar is but he wants us to believe he's trades.
He states that there is no such thing as a Hedge Fund Owner but one of his idols, NASSIM TALEB, even calls himself this.
He doesn't know the profit per increment of the EURO/Dollar spread but trades it, again expecting us to believe he's trades.
His YM paper trading so far this year is barely over 30% but he puts himself out to this forum as an expert trader.
He stalks me in almost every thread I post in and casts dispersions on my discussions without having the foggiest idea of what I do.
Marketsurfer, aka David Goodboy, in my opinion is a sick person that needs our simpathy not our respect.
The disconnect arises from the fact that surfer was actually describing proper trend trading to Ms. McGreedy while valiantly endeavoring to call it anything but. It serves his purpose to define and relegate (his version of) trend trading to mindlessly buying higher highs or selling lower lows on breakout or breakdown. That way, it's easy to knock down. In any event, and as you noted, what he says and what he does don't even have so much as a spurious correlation with one another. Further, sometimes what he says has nothing to do with what he said earlier, either. (Situational Semantics TM)Quote from JimmyJam:
What he does may be one thing, but here is what he said:
The post stuck-out because he was insulting Tracy McGreedy (not cool), but then they worked it out as the two of them went more depth into the concepts being discussed. Hell, Tracy even gave'em some pointers on how he might establish his trading identy better.
Well anyways, there it is, first time on Elite Trader, out of Surf's "mouth".
GT,
JJ
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