Thats called hitting the nail on the head. With all due respect to those that didn't help put these people in charge, it will take a long time for the rest of the wrold to forgive those of you who did. The only thing different between nazi "propaganda" and American "spin" is the times in which we live
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The real Unemployment rate in the United States.
- Thread starter SouthAmerica
- Start date
Thats called hitting the nail on the head. With all due respect to those that didn't help put these people in charge, it will take a long time for the rest of the wrold to forgive those of you who did. The only thing different between nazi "propaganda" and American "spin" is the times in which we live
.
Adwebster: âSo how ironic that it is being infected from the inside this time?â
January 6, 2008
SouthAmerica: What do you mean?
The fact that the Bush administration act very often as a fascist organization.
That's what you are trying to say?
.
Adwebster: âSo how ironic that it is being infected from the inside this time?â
January 6, 2008
SouthAmerica: What do you mean?
The fact that the Bush administration act very often as a fascist organization.
That's what you are trying to say?
.
Quote from southamerica:
.
Adwebster: âSo how ironic that it is being infected from the inside this time?â
January 6, 2008
SouthAmerica: What do you mean?
The fact that the Bush administration act very often as a fascist organization.
That's what you are trying to say?
.
Not quite, but now that you mention it....... I meant financially - sub prime etc
Excellent Commentary All
.........................................................................................
Organization and information order point towards fewer freedoms.
After all, does not everyone want to be just another number for a government whereby the government can assign tracking and full information devices on every living soul in a country.
Perhaps the world is eventually getting closer to this moment as everyone gets Google-lized. Is it not comforting to know that every electronic entry made is accounted for. One day maybe it will be possible to collect all human memory and thought creation as well, to extrapolate causal data ? One has already seen maneuvering by governments towards Google type information already. Notice how fast the internet is spreading ?
Employment numbers will be created and never actual when attempted by any government in the world, until everyone actually does become Google-lized and properly processed.
Then one can look forward to the necessary job task breeding tiers or people classes, as if we do not have them already.
People will be bred by intellect such that some will actually like cleaning up waste produced by those who are in the higher level tiers, because they are bred to be stupid.
And after all , one just can watch prices alone, to play with monetary sway, as it is not necessary to actually know how prices actually got there.
But because Googlization has already commenced, the world of perfect individual information, and its availability is quickly coming to a screen near you.
Human freedoms ? One day one will awaken and read about what people used to actually have, individual privacy and freedom.
But statistics such as labor would be a cinch to calculate, and one would be penalized by being auto-dumbed into a lower working divisional tier, if one does not provide up to date information via their infallible ID sensors.
Freedom is vanishing as we speak.
.........................................................................................
Organization and information order point towards fewer freedoms.
After all, does not everyone want to be just another number for a government whereby the government can assign tracking and full information devices on every living soul in a country.
Perhaps the world is eventually getting closer to this moment as everyone gets Google-lized. Is it not comforting to know that every electronic entry made is accounted for. One day maybe it will be possible to collect all human memory and thought creation as well, to extrapolate causal data ? One has already seen maneuvering by governments towards Google type information already. Notice how fast the internet is spreading ?
Employment numbers will be created and never actual when attempted by any government in the world, until everyone actually does become Google-lized and properly processed.
Then one can look forward to the necessary job task breeding tiers or people classes, as if we do not have them already.
People will be bred by intellect such that some will actually like cleaning up waste produced by those who are in the higher level tiers, because they are bred to be stupid.
And after all , one just can watch prices alone, to play with monetary sway, as it is not necessary to actually know how prices actually got there.
But because Googlization has already commenced, the world of perfect individual information, and its availability is quickly coming to a screen near you.
Human freedoms ? One day one will awaken and read about what people used to actually have, individual privacy and freedom.
But statistics such as labor would be a cinch to calculate, and one would be penalized by being auto-dumbed into a lower working divisional tier, if one does not provide up to date information via their infallible ID sensors.
Freedom is vanishing as we speak.
Quote from southamerica:
.
SouthAmerica: Reply to TrueRange
You wrote: âBash or critique our country and never post anything that has to do with trading our financial markets.â
Do mean like the actual unemployment figures for the US economy?
I guess the stock market went down today just for the hell of it.
You also said: âEither way posting on elitetrader is a pretty useless waste of time as the audience could give a shit about your opinions.â
That is a good thing because if the smart people such as yourself are reacting to the fake unemployment figures like that â can you imagine the reaction of Wall Street if they paid attention to the real unemployment numbers?
The wishful thinking unemployment figures published by the US government it was enough to make the Dow to sink 256 points â just imagine what the real figures would do to - the most liquid, fair and traded market in the entire world.
********
US Stock Market Closings for January 4, 2008
Dow 12,800.18
â256.54
Nasdaq 2,504.65
-98.03
S&P 1,411.63
-35.53
Stocks Sink on Jobs Data; Tech Plummets
Friday January 4, 4:23 pm ET
By Tim Paradis, AP Business Writer
The Associated Press
Stocks Finish Lower After Slower-Than-Expected Jobs Growth, Rising Unemployment
NEW YORK (AP) -- Wall Street fell sharply again Friday after the government's much-anticipated employment report showed weaker-than-expected job growth and a rise in the unemployment rate. The Nasdaq composite index, also pummeled by a downgrade of Intel Corp., skidded more than 3.5 percent, while the Dow Jones industrials fell more than 1.5 percentâ¦.
Source: http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/080104/wall_street.html
.
SA,
You have no idea who I am. But I can guarantee you that I dont react to anything the street releases. And your cluelessness in regards to speculation shines forth like the suns rays when you say things like "I guess the stock market went down today just for the hell of it.". Only newbies, talking heads and politicians attribute mkt moves to the news de jour..oh the hilarity of it!
Let me give you a lesson free of charge: The mkt only moves in the direction of least resistance. The jobs number simply allowed folks like you a way to label the days down trend.
I am not a bull nor a bear...And one days move is just one out of 252 days I have to make money in the worlds largest, most liquid and fairest mkt.
Regards,
The man on the other side of you...if you trade at all that is.
P.S..you never answered my question. What is your agenda here? It surely is not trading related.
.
TrueRange: âSA,
You have no idea who I am.â
***
SouthAmerica: I could careless who you areâ¦.for all I know you can be the King of Prussia and I still donât care who you are.
***
TrueRange: âOnly newbies, talking heads and politicians attribute mkt moves to the news de jour..oh the hilarity of it!â
***
SouthAmerica: If you took the time to read my posting you would have figured out that I quoted the headlines and article from a newbie organization â The Associated Press.
Try reading it again here is the AP headline:
âStocks Sink on Jobs Data; Tech Plummetsâ
Friday January 4, 4:23 pm ET
By Tim Paradis, AP Business Writer
The Associated Press
Stocks Finish Lower After Slower-Than-Expected Jobs Growth, Rising Unemployment
***
TrueRange: âLet me give you a lesson free of charge: The mkt only moves in the direction of least resistance. The jobs number simply allowed folks like you a way to label the days down trend.â
***
SouthAmerica: You must be a genius with insights like that. The folks on this forum must be impressed with you.
***
TrueRange: âThe man on the other side of you...if you trade at all that is.
P.S..you never answered my question. What is your agenda here? It surely is not trading related.â
***
SouthAmerica: First, if you were in the other side of my trades I would have eaten you for breakfast in the last 6 years regarding the US dollar and gold. And I have been right about the direction of interest rates as well in the US market.
If you want to learn about me then you have over 2,000 postings to figure that out â all you have to do is search Elite Trader website and my screen name is SouthAmerica.
.
TrueRange: âSA,
You have no idea who I am.â
***
SouthAmerica: I could careless who you areâ¦.for all I know you can be the King of Prussia and I still donât care who you are.
***
TrueRange: âOnly newbies, talking heads and politicians attribute mkt moves to the news de jour..oh the hilarity of it!â
***
SouthAmerica: If you took the time to read my posting you would have figured out that I quoted the headlines and article from a newbie organization â The Associated Press.
Try reading it again here is the AP headline:
âStocks Sink on Jobs Data; Tech Plummetsâ
Friday January 4, 4:23 pm ET
By Tim Paradis, AP Business Writer
The Associated Press
Stocks Finish Lower After Slower-Than-Expected Jobs Growth, Rising Unemployment
***
TrueRange: âLet me give you a lesson free of charge: The mkt only moves in the direction of least resistance. The jobs number simply allowed folks like you a way to label the days down trend.â
***
SouthAmerica: You must be a genius with insights like that. The folks on this forum must be impressed with you.
***
TrueRange: âThe man on the other side of you...if you trade at all that is.
P.S..you never answered my question. What is your agenda here? It surely is not trading related.â
***
SouthAmerica: First, if you were in the other side of my trades I would have eaten you for breakfast in the last 6 years regarding the US dollar and gold. And I have been right about the direction of interest rates as well in the US market.
If you want to learn about me then you have over 2,000 postings to figure that out â all you have to do is search Elite Trader website and my screen name is SouthAmerica.
.
.
January 7, 2008
SouthAmerica: I was watching today on CNN the Democratic Party debate broadcasted live yesterday on ABC TV.
I did not watch the entire debate, but in the part that I did watch Senator John Edwards was talking about the US job market and the estimated figures that he saw last week saying that the US economy is going to lose 30 million jobs in the coming years.
I am not surprised by this massive loss in jobs in the US economy in the coming years and he reminded me of one of the articles I wrote a few years ago.
I did read Jeremy Rifkinâs book more than once and I also saw his presentation on this subject on a television program â His book really opened my eyes, and I learned a lot from him, I also read most of his other published books.
Quoting from my article:
****
Economic War
It is very hard for any country to create good paying jobs for everyone, to build a solid middle class and in turn generate economic growth and prosperity. Each year that goes by, it becomes even harder to create new jobs in the economy.
In 1995, a book was published, "The End of Work" by Jeremy Rifkin, which described in detail the current and future trends in the job market. I recommend reading that book to anyone who wants to understand the current catastrophic job market.
I will quote the following from Jeremy Rifkin's mind-opening book. He wrote in the introduction: "Global unemployment has now reached its highest level since the great depression of the 1930's. More than 800 million human beings are now unemployed or underemployed in the world. That figure is likely to rise sharply between now and the turn of the century as millions of new entrants into the workforce find themselves without jobs, many victims of a technology revolution that is fast replacing human beings with machines in virtually every sector and industry of the global economy.
"...In the past, when new technologies have replaced workers in a given sector, new sectors have always emerged to absorb the displaced laborers. Today, all three of the traditional sectors of the economyâagriculture, manufacturing, and servicesâare experiencing technological displacement, forcing millions onto the unemployment rolls.
The only new sector emerging is the knowledge sector, made up of a small elite of entrepreneurs, scientists, technicians, computer programmers, professional educators and consultants. While this sector is growing, it is not expected to absorb more than a fraction of the hundreds of millions who will be eliminated in the next several decades in the wake of revolutionary advances in the information and communications sciences.
"...Now, for the first time, human labor is being systematically eliminated from the production process. ...Substituting software for employees...To begin with, more than 75 percent of the labor force in most industrial nations engage in work that is little more than simple repetitive tasks. Automated machinery, robots, and increasingly sophisticated computers can perform many if not most of these jobs. In the United States alone, that means that in the years ahead more than 90 million jobs in the labor force of 124 million are potentially vulnerable to replacement by machines. With current surveys showing that less than 5 percent of companies around the world have even begun to make the transition to the new machine culture, massive unemployment of the kind never before experienced seems all but inevitable in the coming decades.
"...A study was published in 1989 by the International Metalworkers Federation in Geneva forecasting that within thirty years (by the year 2019), as little as 2 percent of the world's current labor force will be needed to produce all the goods necessary for total demand." I want to remind you that it is 2 percent of today's world labor force and not 2 percent of the world labor force in 2019, which could have many more millions of people.
The Current Job Market
As we can see, it will become even harder for countries to create jobs in the future for their population. A job, any type of job, it is worth saving to keep most of the members of the population employed. Keeping jobs in your country has become more important than ever before.
Here is what is happening to unemployed workers in New Jersey, this is what happened to some people that I know. Two people were evicted from their homes recently. Another person was in the process of his car being repossessed. Three other people have filed for bankruptcy protection under chapter-7. And many who have used up their unemployment extensions, are now depleting any savings that they have left for their retirement. These people have no idea how they will be able to manage financially, when they get to retirement age, and all their savings are gone.
The situation is getting more and more scary by the day, since I see a drastic increase of people who are losing their jobs and are going to the Labor Department to ask for help. The quality of the people unemployed is mind boggling, since over 50 percent of today's unemployed have at least a college degree. One fellow that I met is a young man who graduated from Harvard University, and he also has an MBA from Wharton School of the University of Pennsylvania. He has been looking for a job for over a year.
For the first time in US history, over 50 percent of the people who are unemployed are very well-educated people. Does it make any difference if the unemployed people are well educated or if they are blue color workers as in the past?
You bet it does.
Well-educated people can fight back the system that has discarded them for no good reason and they can expose the weaknesses of the entire system because many of these well-educated people know where the cracks are in the wall of the dam.
In the age of the internet and of knowledge the well-educated people can fight back the system like never before with the power of the pen.
I am sure the people who runs the US government today have never grasped that simple fact, and they think that it is just business as usual.
The reality about the âAmerican Dreamâ
So much hype for the American dream, but according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics out of 100 people that start working at age 25, by age 65â1 percent are wealthy, 4 percent have enough money to retire comfortably, 3 percent are still working (can't afford to quit), 63 percent depend on Social Security, friends or charity, and 29 percent are dead.
The reality is that over 90 percent of all Americans retire almost in poverty after working for 45 years.
For the people who are unemployed, the economic depression is already here. For the people who still have jobs, they know that if they lose their jobs it will be almost impossible to find a new job. The difference between past recessions and the current job slump is that the people laid-off in the past would be rehired when the economy recovered. This time around most people's jobs have gone forever.
We are in the beginning stages of a possible worldwide depression. Americans still in denial and they donât want to recognize the realityâthe best days of the American economy are long gone, and today the system is running on borrowed money. The federal government, the states, the companies and the public are all surviving on credit. How far can this situation keep going on before the house of cards collapses?
.
January 7, 2008
SouthAmerica: I was watching today on CNN the Democratic Party debate broadcasted live yesterday on ABC TV.
I did not watch the entire debate, but in the part that I did watch Senator John Edwards was talking about the US job market and the estimated figures that he saw last week saying that the US economy is going to lose 30 million jobs in the coming years.
I am not surprised by this massive loss in jobs in the US economy in the coming years and he reminded me of one of the articles I wrote a few years ago.
I did read Jeremy Rifkinâs book more than once and I also saw his presentation on this subject on a television program â His book really opened my eyes, and I learned a lot from him, I also read most of his other published books.
Quoting from my article:
****
Economic War
It is very hard for any country to create good paying jobs for everyone, to build a solid middle class and in turn generate economic growth and prosperity. Each year that goes by, it becomes even harder to create new jobs in the economy.
In 1995, a book was published, "The End of Work" by Jeremy Rifkin, which described in detail the current and future trends in the job market. I recommend reading that book to anyone who wants to understand the current catastrophic job market.
I will quote the following from Jeremy Rifkin's mind-opening book. He wrote in the introduction: "Global unemployment has now reached its highest level since the great depression of the 1930's. More than 800 million human beings are now unemployed or underemployed in the world. That figure is likely to rise sharply between now and the turn of the century as millions of new entrants into the workforce find themselves without jobs, many victims of a technology revolution that is fast replacing human beings with machines in virtually every sector and industry of the global economy.
"...In the past, when new technologies have replaced workers in a given sector, new sectors have always emerged to absorb the displaced laborers. Today, all three of the traditional sectors of the economyâagriculture, manufacturing, and servicesâare experiencing technological displacement, forcing millions onto the unemployment rolls.
The only new sector emerging is the knowledge sector, made up of a small elite of entrepreneurs, scientists, technicians, computer programmers, professional educators and consultants. While this sector is growing, it is not expected to absorb more than a fraction of the hundreds of millions who will be eliminated in the next several decades in the wake of revolutionary advances in the information and communications sciences.
"...Now, for the first time, human labor is being systematically eliminated from the production process. ...Substituting software for employees...To begin with, more than 75 percent of the labor force in most industrial nations engage in work that is little more than simple repetitive tasks. Automated machinery, robots, and increasingly sophisticated computers can perform many if not most of these jobs. In the United States alone, that means that in the years ahead more than 90 million jobs in the labor force of 124 million are potentially vulnerable to replacement by machines. With current surveys showing that less than 5 percent of companies around the world have even begun to make the transition to the new machine culture, massive unemployment of the kind never before experienced seems all but inevitable in the coming decades.
"...A study was published in 1989 by the International Metalworkers Federation in Geneva forecasting that within thirty years (by the year 2019), as little as 2 percent of the world's current labor force will be needed to produce all the goods necessary for total demand." I want to remind you that it is 2 percent of today's world labor force and not 2 percent of the world labor force in 2019, which could have many more millions of people.
The Current Job Market
As we can see, it will become even harder for countries to create jobs in the future for their population. A job, any type of job, it is worth saving to keep most of the members of the population employed. Keeping jobs in your country has become more important than ever before.
Here is what is happening to unemployed workers in New Jersey, this is what happened to some people that I know. Two people were evicted from their homes recently. Another person was in the process of his car being repossessed. Three other people have filed for bankruptcy protection under chapter-7. And many who have used up their unemployment extensions, are now depleting any savings that they have left for their retirement. These people have no idea how they will be able to manage financially, when they get to retirement age, and all their savings are gone.
The situation is getting more and more scary by the day, since I see a drastic increase of people who are losing their jobs and are going to the Labor Department to ask for help. The quality of the people unemployed is mind boggling, since over 50 percent of today's unemployed have at least a college degree. One fellow that I met is a young man who graduated from Harvard University, and he also has an MBA from Wharton School of the University of Pennsylvania. He has been looking for a job for over a year.
For the first time in US history, over 50 percent of the people who are unemployed are very well-educated people. Does it make any difference if the unemployed people are well educated or if they are blue color workers as in the past?
You bet it does.
Well-educated people can fight back the system that has discarded them for no good reason and they can expose the weaknesses of the entire system because many of these well-educated people know where the cracks are in the wall of the dam.
In the age of the internet and of knowledge the well-educated people can fight back the system like never before with the power of the pen.
I am sure the people who runs the US government today have never grasped that simple fact, and they think that it is just business as usual.
The reality about the âAmerican Dreamâ
So much hype for the American dream, but according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics out of 100 people that start working at age 25, by age 65â1 percent are wealthy, 4 percent have enough money to retire comfortably, 3 percent are still working (can't afford to quit), 63 percent depend on Social Security, friends or charity, and 29 percent are dead.
The reality is that over 90 percent of all Americans retire almost in poverty after working for 45 years.
For the people who are unemployed, the economic depression is already here. For the people who still have jobs, they know that if they lose their jobs it will be almost impossible to find a new job. The difference between past recessions and the current job slump is that the people laid-off in the past would be rehired when the economy recovered. This time around most people's jobs have gone forever.
We are in the beginning stages of a possible worldwide depression. Americans still in denial and they donât want to recognize the realityâthe best days of the American economy are long gone, and today the system is running on borrowed money. The federal government, the states, the companies and the public are all surviving on credit. How far can this situation keep going on before the house of cards collapses?
.
Excellent Commentary As Usual
...............................................................................
You continue to bring into view issues that are very important and have a very interesting perspective.
The one thing that I know with a high level of certainty is that any country that wants to advance economically in real terms has to do so through productivity.
Without increases in productivity, quality of life declines for everyone.
A simple example is that is quite obvious for the auto industry is that US workers are paid far more than Chinese workers, whereby today Chinese workers are paid about $1.00 per hour.
Now just how is it that US automakers will not want to use this Chinese labor?
Oil lifting costs in some of the Middle Eastern countries is in the 90cents to $2.00 per barrel range. Why would any major oil company want to pursue $20 lifting costs ? Thus of course any major oil company is going to take out all of the stops to get to these geographical positions.
Thus globalization is simply the legal flexibility of a company to pursue efficiency anywhere it can be found in the world.
Thus the question becomes just how can efficiency take place without globalization ?
..........................................................................................
And the points that you make about information technologies and their impacts on the quality of human life is very interesting.
The simplest example of this is wal-mart, which is basically a warehousing concept that has removed mom and pop retailers in every community it enters.
The next phase of this is that many products that are homogenous can simply be warehoused and ordered on the internet.
Why buy at wal-mart for $50 when one could buy from a true warehouser for $42.
..................................................................................................
Also it is information technologies that will take away human freedoms. The human element versus computer based technologies is being taxed in the form of basically taking away human freedoms. This is a very real issue. It is almost as if a human life is just a dumbed down computer subject to more errors.
Human freedoms will soon be a thing of the past. One day in the not so distant future, one will wake up and read about the basic human freedoms people used to have.
..................................................................................................
A real question about some forms of efficiency is that although they can take place, should they ?
...............................................................................
You continue to bring into view issues that are very important and have a very interesting perspective.
The one thing that I know with a high level of certainty is that any country that wants to advance economically in real terms has to do so through productivity.
Without increases in productivity, quality of life declines for everyone.
A simple example is that is quite obvious for the auto industry is that US workers are paid far more than Chinese workers, whereby today Chinese workers are paid about $1.00 per hour.
Now just how is it that US automakers will not want to use this Chinese labor?
Oil lifting costs in some of the Middle Eastern countries is in the 90cents to $2.00 per barrel range. Why would any major oil company want to pursue $20 lifting costs ? Thus of course any major oil company is going to take out all of the stops to get to these geographical positions.
Thus globalization is simply the legal flexibility of a company to pursue efficiency anywhere it can be found in the world.
Thus the question becomes just how can efficiency take place without globalization ?
..........................................................................................
And the points that you make about information technologies and their impacts on the quality of human life is very interesting.
The simplest example of this is wal-mart, which is basically a warehousing concept that has removed mom and pop retailers in every community it enters.
The next phase of this is that many products that are homogenous can simply be warehoused and ordered on the internet.
Why buy at wal-mart for $50 when one could buy from a true warehouser for $42.
..................................................................................................
Also it is information technologies that will take away human freedoms. The human element versus computer based technologies is being taxed in the form of basically taking away human freedoms. This is a very real issue. It is almost as if a human life is just a dumbed down computer subject to more errors.
Human freedoms will soon be a thing of the past. One day in the not so distant future, one will wake up and read about the basic human freedoms people used to have.
..................................................................................................
A real question about some forms of efficiency is that although they can take place, should they ?