The Prop Trading Industry EXPOSED
- Thread starter bonds
- Start date
I think the reason you are getting this flak is the way the thread started - The Prop Trading Industry EXPOSED.
That title suggests that anybody reading is going to expect to see some kind of useful details about exactly what happened, what firms were involved, and something much more substantial than "3 unnamed firms kept some of my money in some unspecified vague way and therefore the whole Prop Trading Industry Sucks".
Why start the thread at all if you aren't going to name the firms and/or expose meaningful details?
I don't really see the "service" provided to us by sharing this experience or how this is going to help anybody else. Wow, some prop firms are bad and kept my money! Damn, I never would have guessed that..... Maybe the prop industry is all crooks. Oh, those evil LLCs, etc.
A useful thread would share what relevant things you have learned from the situation, such as:
1. How to recognize a good firm versus a bad prop firm
2. Stuff in the contract that was written in a sleazy way
3. What were the common factors for the 3 bad apples
4. What sort of things should be done during the "due diligence" phase.
Most of us are a little skeptical about how much wisdom you would have about this whole prop firm endeavor considering that you encountered exactly the same problem 3 times in a row. You know, "Fool me once, shame on you.... fool my twice, shame on me.....Fool me 3 times, write about it on EliteTrader.....lol"
Good luck getting your situation resolved. Once it is resolved, please consider elaborating on the story to provide actual useful information for others.
I understand your comment (facetious, but nice), but please believe me that none of the firm's that I consider a real "competitor" is on the list. In fact, as I told Maverick at lunch, I also have a "good guy" list of trading firms, and his was on it.
I know it may sound pretentious of me, but I have been trying to help people, believe it or not.
Don
Don,
Believe me your post was not the smartest thing you did this month
I always respected you and I still do but I don't believe that everybody is gonna like you now that you will be the cause (or one of the causes) that will force some traders to close their profitable accounts.
And by the way, there are some reasons why someone would join non-regulated LLC
1- Having no license, and not having the option to get one (traders living in countries where no test center is available)
2- Depositing only $5000, I know you would argue that this might be profitable but believe me many guys just deposit $5000 and make a living out of it
3- Paying very low commissions, I don't believe that many profitable guys here would still be profitable if they pay more than $0.004 per share
If you can solve these 3 problems, many traders would join you right away
Unfortunately what you did is simply trying to minimize your competition by closing out those LLCs, as I said not the smartest move.
Believe me your post was not the smartest thing you did this month
I always respected you and I still do but I don't believe that everybody is gonna like you now that you will be the cause (or one of the causes) that will force some traders to close their profitable accounts.
And by the way, there are some reasons why someone would join non-regulated LLC
1- Having no license, and not having the option to get one (traders living in countries where no test center is available)
2- Depositing only $5000, I know you would argue that this might be profitable but believe me many guys just deposit $5000 and make a living out of it
3- Paying very low commissions, I don't believe that many profitable guys here would still be profitable if they pay more than $0.004 per share
If you can solve these 3 problems, many traders would join you right away
Unfortunately what you did is simply trying to minimize your competition by closing out those LLCs, as I said not the smartest move.
Sorry to all for making such a useless thread and wasting your precious time... i was just trying to make a simple point but obviously it has no merit unless names are mentioned.
I'll have to take a course on making a useful thread in the meantime if you dont have anything useful to say move on to the next thread...
Best in trading.
Hi Newbie...
1. There are regulated firms that may not require licensing (for the time being anyway). There are many traders in foreigh countries who have taken and passed the S7.
2. There are regulated firms who will take small deposits, but I still maintain that there is a harder road with little capital (but this is still America, and choices are to made by the "decider", LOL).
3. Most of the firms that I have on my "list" charge much more than you might think.
And, as I said, these firms are not my competition. BT has enough competition from Regulated firms, LOL.
I appreciate and understand your comments, thank you.
All the best,
Don
1. There are regulated firms that may not require licensing (for the time being anyway). There are many traders in foreigh countries who have taken and passed the S7.
2. There are regulated firms who will take small deposits, but I still maintain that there is a harder road with little capital (but this is still America, and choices are to made by the "decider", LOL).
3. Most of the firms that I have on my "list" charge much more than you might think.
And, as I said, these firms are not my competition. BT has enough competition from Regulated firms, LOL.
I appreciate and understand your comments, thank you.
All the best,
Don
the traditional definition of prop shops referered to traders who used broker's capital to trade and are subject to regulatory oversight.
the definition as previously mentioned has expanded to similarly structured hedged funds who are not subject to oversight.
the issue here mr.bond is that you have promised ,starting with the name of your thread ,then you have delivered. shifting what to look for to mr bright and his post is an abdication of responsibility.
mr bright covered the subject from what can be derived from filings.
you have continued to refuse to write about what the firms told you that should have been signs that these firms were dishonest.
LOL I'm still trying to see if he is talking about equities or futures. Real proprietary or retail "prop" version. If equities, rebate trading or straight daytrading. If futures, index futures, T-notes/bonds spreads, etc.
Since he is talking about % of profits, I am assuming real prop and that this is futures, since those deals are rare in equities.
The only thing fishy about mr.bonds is that if he is really as good as he says he is, then I do not see why even the shady prop firms would screw him. One, maybe, two, a bit rare but all three? They can't all be that stupid.
Search on Worldco, you will notice that while most were getting screwed one way or another, the top traders were getting great deals. It is the same across the board, even at chop shops. And anyone who can make "well over 6 figures" in 18 months of day one, is no average trader.
Since he is talking about % of profits, I am assuming real prop and that this is futures, since those deals are rare in equities.
The only thing fishy about mr.bonds is that if he is really as good as he says he is, then I do not see why even the shady prop firms would screw him. One, maybe, two, a bit rare but all three? They can't all be that stupid.
Search on Worldco, you will notice that while most were getting screwed one way or another, the top traders were getting great deals. It is the same across the board, even at chop shops. And anyone who can make "well over 6 figures" in 18 months of day one, is no average trader.
Ah contrare. Sounds like a bitter trader to me. Don't worry, I lost too. Everything in life is either an opportunity or it's not. Posting on an anonymous board in this manner does not make your failure any less easy to see.
every thread that even hints of a trader having issues turns into the same 'ol tired "check the balance sheets" advertisement for Bright..well, you've got the balance sheets, so what? I'd rather go with an LLC where I don't put up much capital and get rates that are much better than BTs. For a high volume trader, the amount of money saved on rates of let's say .003 vs. Brights of .006 (is that where the break is these days? I know they start at .01, ouch!) are substantial. Think about if you trade 3 million shares a month. You are paying a premium of 108,000/yr for your precious balance sheets. Hell, you're better off with a true daytrading firm that is a little less well capitalized (I can name several) that doesn't charge an arm and a leg to trade there.....let's say worst case scenario, you lose your $25K deposit, well, that's a calculated risk I'd be willing to take to add an extra 6 figures to my yearly income. of course, I'm not saying just deposit your money in some random LLC, do your own due diligence...