The Perfect Prop Firm

I'm just reporting what the prop firms are look for based on the job descriptions. I think more firms are going to using teams of people vs individual traders. As Maverick points out.. these firms have to make a a lot just to stay in business. Most of these firms claim to be liquidity providing.. perhaps trading spreads using custom software or graybox systems.. perhaps using "ticker tape" trading.

I don't think that for an extraordinary discretionary trader like myself the game has changed very much. But, there is a big difference between what I do and these firms do. They have a much bigger edge then I've mustered. Its about whether you are in the risk space vs the technology space. If you stay in risk space then you should be good. Profits will be limited to 30% to 300% per year though..

Quote from Swan Noir:

Lucias, I assume you mean "the era of the discretionary trader is past and gone" at prop firms ... as opposed to being over in general. Assuming that is your opinion it sounds correct. Discretionary traders are more likely to be directional than those requiring more infrastructure and as Mav points out the non-directional more algo driven trader requires more leverage.
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most equity prop firms do require a risk deposit by their traders to absorb any trading losses . the way it has worked for years

prop firms that choose to accept 5-10k accounts for prop trading are the norm & it's legit. we all have to be licensed these days

how much money a trader has in their account has no relevance whether someone is a profitable trader or not


you have to do your homework to choose the right firm to do busines with if your a pro or newbe

for the firms that sell training as part of recruiting traders that is another world . buyer beware

the true equity proprietary model of being a employee of the firm & trading their capital with no risk with a split deal is history

very few firms want to take the risk with any trader but rather benefit from earning money through generating commission revenue
so one should expect a full payout of profits

their are too many greedy & shady characters in the prop business that is our problem who can you trust ?
when it comes to finding the right prop firm to do business with

That is why most traders prefer to put up 5-10k at risk with any given firm & hope all goes well in their trading relationship
 
Quote from hitnrun:

most equity prop firms do require a risk deposit by their traders to absorb any trading losses . the way it has worked for years

prop firms that choose to accept 5-10k accounts for prop trading are the norm & are legit. we all have have to be licensed these days

how much money a trader has in their account has no relevance whether someone is a profitable trader or not


you have to do your homework to choose the right firms to do busines with if your a pro or newbe

for the firms that sell training as part of recruiting traders that is another world . buyer beware

the true equity proprietary model of being a employee of the firm & trading their capital with no risk with a split deal is history

very few firms want to take the risk with any trader but rather benefit from earning money through generating commission revenue
so one should expect a full payout of profits

their are too many greedy & shady characters in this business to trust is the problem . when it comes to finding the right prop firm to do business with so that is why most traders prefer to put up 5-10k at risk with any given firm & hope all goes well
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We have an equity firm here in Chicago that backs guys 100%. No deposit to put up. No license. No need to check the balance sheets. That model is still there, but yes, it's competitive.
 
Statements like that, whether they are true or a delusion, come off much better when you are being complimented by another ... preferably someone whose judgment is highly respected. When you say it about yourself -- again, whether it is true or a delusion -- it is more than a bit suspect. Frankly, it is the Charlie Sheen model.

Assuming you're a grown man you really need to get a grip and leave the 14 year old bravado behind or grab some blow and a couple of hookers ... lol.

Quote from Lucias:

I am extraordinary talent.


QUOTE]
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Quote from Swan Noir:

Statements like that, whether they are true or a delusion, come off much better when you are being complimented by another ... preferably someone whose judgment is highly respected. When you say it about yourself -- again, whether it is true or a delusion -- it is more than a bit suspect. Frankly, it is the Charlie sheen model.

Assuming you're a grown man you really need to get a grip and leave the 14 year old bravado behind or grab some blow and a couple of hookers ... lol.

Quote from Lucias:

I am extraordinary talent.


QUOTE]
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Im curious how he would act in person ...normally a person that is truly confident in themselves won't talk themselves up on message boards. Haha i want to see if this guy is on the level because one can sniff out a wannabe pretty quick!
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Quote from Lucias:

I'm just reporting what the prop firms are look for based on the job descriptions. I think more firms are going to using teams of people vs individual traders. As Maverick points out.. these firms have to make a a lot just to stay in business. Most of these firms claim to be liquidity providing.. perhaps trading spreads using custom software or graybox systems.. perhaps using "ticker tape" trading.

I don't think that for an extraordinary discretionary trader like myself the game has changed very much. But, there is a big difference between what I do and these firms do. They have a much bigger edge then I've mustered. Its about whether you are in the risk space vs the technology space. If you stay in risk space then you should be good. Profits will be limited to 30% to 300% per year though..
More...

If your an extraordinary discretionary trader...what is your next step. Perhaps save up some money and put up an account at a prop. If your consistently profitable for a couple months most firms would probably want to back you in some form or another. Put up or shutup man! Taking it to the next level means stepping out of your comfort zone and being willing to lose something. Getting some skin in the game. Hell I left sunny California to be where I am and Guess what I've sacrificed Alot of time and things to work on my goals!
 
No firm has offered me a deal that I can accept. I'm going live with my own capital. I can make more by offering subscriptions and trading my own account while working a normal 9-5. I already have one of the top futures systems at C2. There isn't anyone out there who can compete with me in the directional space and time will prove that. Its also less risky for me to trade my own money. This play a big role in my deciding to trade my own capital. Plus, I have complete freedom, another big plus. I mean that even if a firm offers "firm capital" but not a salary then that means giving up a salary and also you need what 30k to 40k to survive.. Thats a lot of risk. Its more risk then trading my own money and you're not even own boss. So that was the deciding factor for me. I'd be very interested in remote opportunity, firm capital. I'd be very interested in that.

While I may not be trading treasuries or spread trading.. for the average joe who wants to take a swing with 10k or 50k then I'm the best shot in the world. I imagine there are more small fry with who want to take a shot then big guys anyway...

Also, a lot of funds are no longer willing to accept anything less then 100% transparency. I'm already in that game and that should benefit me too.

Quote from Shanb:

If your an extraordinary discretionary trader...what is your next step. Perhaps save up some money and put up an account at a prop. If your consistently profitable for a couple months most firms would probably want to back you in some form or another. Put up or shutup man! Taking it to the next level means stepping out of your comfort zone and being willing to lose something. Getting some skin in the game. Hell I left sunny California to be where I am and Guess what I've sacrificed Alot of time and things to work on my goals!
More...
 
Quote from Lucias:

No firm has offered me enough (par value) to make the right deal. I'm going live with my own capital. I can make more by offering subscriptions and trading my own account while working a normal 9-5. I already have one of the top futures systems at C2. There isn't anyone out there who can compete with me in the directional space and time will prove that.
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Is your goal to just make a living trading or really excel. Idk about you but I didn't get into this business with idea of just making some extra money or do relatively well.

I think prop firms offer something for everyone. There are firms that tailor to smaller traders looking to get some extra leverage and cheap commis. Then there are firms that cater to traders that require backing, software, excution etc.! I think once a trader is on a certain level you eventually find value in some prop format because that is where you will have access to real capital where you can actually bring in the big bucks!

Depending on what type of traders a firm is targeting there could be many different models that are "perfect"
 
capital use is the only reason to trade prop.

i disagree you can't do tech with retail. lime and to a lesser degree, genesis, have been providing infrastructure for awhile now.

ideal prop:

- a decent chunk of capital use, 10M+
- 100% payout
- low capital put-up, enough to cover any drawdown estimates
- low to near nothing in fees
- cutting edge infrastructure

if i'm doing 10-20M+ shares a month, i would expect that. you get to make your money off the others, i help keep your trading cheap.

if i'm doing less than that, then those points above get adjusted accordingly.

why would anyone with that kind of volume do that? 2-3M of nut at a prime or IB, is still a decent amount of nut. you're worth more to the small prop for your volume then you are to the allocator for your alpha.
 
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