Sorry to hear you think we have gone soft between the legs. In reality, it would only take one nuke from either nation to start MAD. I believe we would wait for them to light up first, and I encourage our military to nuke Moscow with the nukes we already have stashed there, should they attack our soldiers in Georgia.
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The New Soviet Union - Surprise, Surprise...
- Thread starter SouthAmerica
- Start date
Sorry to hear you think we have gone soft between the legs. In reality, it would only take one nuke from either nation to start MAD. I believe we would wait for them to light up first, and I encourage our military to nuke Moscow with the nukes we already have stashed there, should they attack our soldiers in Georgia.
Regarding missiles base in Poland, the matter dragged on and on for a long time. Now Polish signed it in hurry. They know that the only true protection against Russian garbage is U.S. military facility on their land. Czechs should do the same with radars.
Reg. the impotence, what Germans would do to protect NATO ally??? Or French, or anybody in a wimpy Europe?
For Central Europe U.S. is the only guarantee against Russian menace.
P.S.By the way, Germans are the same shit like Russians just more civilized.
Reg. the impotence, what Germans would do to protect NATO ally??? Or French, or anybody in a wimpy Europe?
For Central Europe U.S. is the only guarantee against Russian menace.
P.S.By the way, Germans are the same shit like Russians just more civilized.
Quote from Cesko:
Regarding missiles base in Poland, the matter dragged on and on for a long time. Now Polish signed it in hurry. They know that the only true protection against Russian garbage is U.S. military facility on their land. Czechs should do the same with radars.
Reg. the impotence, what Germans would do to protect NATO ally??? Or French, or anybody in a wimpy Europe? For Central Europe U.S. is the only guarantee against Russian menace. P.S.By the way, Germans are the same shit like Russians just more civilized.
Damn guy, good stuff there. One question, if Europe looks to us to fight the bear, whey aren't they paying us in advance?
Quote from LoveMySystems:
Sorry to hear you think we have gone soft between the legs. In reality, it would only take one nuke from either nation to start MAD. I believe we would wait for them to light up first, and I encourage our military to nuke Moscow with the nukes we already have stashed there, should they attack our soldiers in Georgia.
This is nuts, in a nuclear world whoever strikes 1st wins. If we indeed have nukes in place in Moscow it can safely be assumed that Russians have a similar strategy and back up in DC. Surprise attack wiping out the enemy's leadership from congress to white house to pentagon and we would be in a poor position to respond.
Russians just want to see how much they can get away with knowing that the US won't do shit about Georgia (though the missles in Poland sure make it look like the strategy backfired on them) and I wonder if their move isn't somehow related to the fall in oil prices. Trying to get some global risk premium back in to oil and Ngas prices as Russian government is one of the biggest losers with fall in oil prices (they take something like 90% of oil revenue generated by russian oil companies above $27 or 29 a barrel).
Quote from Mvic:
This is nuts, in a nuclear world whoever strikes 1st wins. If we indeed have nukes in place in Moscow it can safely be assumed that Russians have a similar strategy and back up in DC. Surprise attack wiping out the enemy's leadership from congress to white house to pentagon and we would be in a poor position to respond.
Russians just want to see how much they can get away with knowing that the US won't do shit about Georgia (though the missles in Poland sure make it look like the strategy backfired on them) and I wonder if their move isn't somehow related to the fall in oil prices. Trying to get some global risk premium back in to oil and Ngas prices as Russian government is one of the biggest losers with fall in oil prices (they take something like 90% of oil revenue generated by russian oil companies above $27 or 29 a barrel).
Nuclear war is nuts. Putin is just a Russian... driven, secretive and hungry to dominate, which is why they will soon be holding hands with Islam.
And yes, they have nukes in the US. Relax, some freshman senator nowhere near DC when it blows will be happy to pick up the authority and pretend how to lead the military.
Russians dont want to see anything. They want to do. And yes, Georgia is a test for us. Bush sticking our military in their face amidst the conflict was cool, and they didn't say crap when our military landed. Whether or not we have the will to enforce our word against Russia, to defend our allies when nuked, is the next test.
But if people are just wanting to delay the inevitable, sorry, I'm not in that camp. I live someplace easily evacuated and nowhere near any primary or secondary targets. And yes, I believe nuclear war is inevitable. Call me the type-A male that I am. If I am going to die I want to die on my terms.
All this talk about Russians are back and new cold war has started is nonsense. What happened in the last few days was that Russians drew a line beyond which they will react with force.
If US and NATO can live with it then fine otherwise another round of blowing up funds on ultra expensive military hardware that sits around and does nothing (although some byproduct technologies help the civilian causes too).
The main point of difference was the social and economic ideology that USSR had adopted. Russians neither want to go back to communism nor want to export it to anybody. Russia was really hurting under the lawlessness of the 1990s and Putin leadership took away few loopholes and implemented the law with cold emotion and this in turn brought crime and mafia under control. If that is violation of human rights then probably every western nation is a gross violator.
If the new approach of US is Cold War II because Russia is an informal dictatorship then US is crying on something that is unnatural for Russians. Russia in last 1000 years have been a dictatorship of sorts, be it under a King, Tsar or Committee of individuals. Russia cannot function well under a loose democratic set up.
It is in best interest of the US to accept the reality and move on. Let it be known, that Russia will choose the nuclear option if the integrity and existence of Russia as a nation is threatened. From here on, Russia will be under firm leadership, free market type mixed economy (Canadian, French model) and it will take much more active interest in the activities within its neighborhood. US was too arrogant to accept the change presented to them in 1991 and now after 18 years, it's choices are much more limited. Unfortunately the balance sheets are also in much vulnerable shape.
If US and NATO can live with it then fine otherwise another round of blowing up funds on ultra expensive military hardware that sits around and does nothing (although some byproduct technologies help the civilian causes too).
The main point of difference was the social and economic ideology that USSR had adopted. Russians neither want to go back to communism nor want to export it to anybody. Russia was really hurting under the lawlessness of the 1990s and Putin leadership took away few loopholes and implemented the law with cold emotion and this in turn brought crime and mafia under control. If that is violation of human rights then probably every western nation is a gross violator.
If the new approach of US is Cold War II because Russia is an informal dictatorship then US is crying on something that is unnatural for Russians. Russia in last 1000 years have been a dictatorship of sorts, be it under a King, Tsar or Committee of individuals. Russia cannot function well under a loose democratic set up.
It is in best interest of the US to accept the reality and move on. Let it be known, that Russia will choose the nuclear option if the integrity and existence of Russia as a nation is threatened. From here on, Russia will be under firm leadership, free market type mixed economy (Canadian, French model) and it will take much more active interest in the activities within its neighborhood. US was too arrogant to accept the change presented to them in 1991 and now after 18 years, it's choices are much more limited. Unfortunately the balance sheets are also in much vulnerable shape.
Quote from toc:
All this talk about Russians are back and new cold war has started is nonsense. What happened in the last few days was that Russians drew a line beyond which they will react with force.
What happened in the last few days was that Russia displayed it never changed in the first place.
.
John Wensink: Actually the response was the put the missile shield over Poland which Russia is now crying about and stating Poland may be attacked by nuclear weapons.
An impotent response? I think not.
*********
August 16, 2008
SouthAmerica: The Russians already announced that they are sending their military back to Cuba.
I wonder what would be the US reaction if the Russians also decide to build a missile shield over Cuba to protect Cuba and now also Venezuela.
I guess the United States would not mind since if it is OK to build a missile shield in Poland then why it should not be OK for the Russians to build a similar system in Cuba?
I guess both sides can play that game.
*******
Toc: All this talk about Russians are back and new cold war has started is nonsense.
******
SouthAmerica: I have news for you.
The new cold war has been going on for a while since the United States started moving into the Soviet Union old circle of influence.
The United States trying to be the protector of Georgia â that is a big joke - The US building a missile shield in Poland, and the Russians returning its military to Cuba. Hugo Chavez close ties to the Russians and the Russians building Chavez military.
I have been watching American television for years building up the idea that the Russians after the complete collapse of the Soviet Union turned into a country completely powerless, and without any influence anywhere.
I never understood why anyone with a minimum amount of common sense and brain would think that the Russians became so powerless militarily when the Russians have a large arsenal of nuclear weapons and the capability to strike anywhere around the world.
And just God knows what surprises they have in store from space since the United States space program had a complete collapse and Americans had to ask the Russians for a ride on the Russians space vehicles for a period of time.
For all practical purposes the US space program is stuck in the 1970âs â I like to remind you that the Shuttle program was approved when Richard Nixon was the US president in the early 1970âs â They still working today in the bugs of the Shuttle that was supposed to have been fixed by the late 1970âs and everything the Shuttle program has achieved up to this point that was the goal of achieving it by 1979.
The US space program is at least 30 years behind schedule.
In the meantime God knows what the Russians have achieved on their program in the last 30 years.
Here is another actual example of US decline in the area of its space program.
In August 2003, Brazil had a major set back on its space program when a rocket exploded in the launching pad 3 days before was supposed to be lifted into space. It was a major catastrophe and a lot of people died in that accident.
The United States did not offered any help to the Brazilian government and the Brazilian government understand why â today the US can't help even themselves in matters of a space program; just look at the mess of the US Shuttle program
The Russians came to the rescue of the Brazilian government, and the Russians helped the Brazilian scientists in that time of extreme need.
***
Most of this information had been posted on the website of the Brazilian space agency.
November 22, 2004
â¦The perspectives of the Russian-Brazilian cooperation in the sphere of space exploration have been outlined the in 1997 intergovernmental agreement "On cooperation in peaceful research and exploration of outer space."
According to Mr. Perminov, Brazil is willing to establish close cooperation with Russia in this sphere. "I would mention in this case objective and subjective factors. Objectively, Russia and the United States are two space superpowers. However, at the tragic time of the 2003 VLS-1 rocket explosion at the space center in Alcantara (Brazil), Russia was the only country to extend a helping hand to Brazilian colleagues," the head of Roskosmos emphasized.
Russian specialists worked at the site of the incident. They came up with a series of solutions and presented them to the Brazilian side. Brazilian experts decided that safety recommendations presented by Russian specialists were the most acceptable both in technical and financial terms. The Russian Federal Space Agency had also outlined several technical and organizational solutions that helped the Brazilians to start immediately the reconstruction of the space center and make relevant corrections in the design of the VLS rocket.
"All our recommendations were considered the most optimal by the Brazilian side," Mr. Perminov stressed.
.
John Wensink: Actually the response was the put the missile shield over Poland which Russia is now crying about and stating Poland may be attacked by nuclear weapons.
An impotent response? I think not.
*********
August 16, 2008
SouthAmerica: The Russians already announced that they are sending their military back to Cuba.
I wonder what would be the US reaction if the Russians also decide to build a missile shield over Cuba to protect Cuba and now also Venezuela.
I guess the United States would not mind since if it is OK to build a missile shield in Poland then why it should not be OK for the Russians to build a similar system in Cuba?
I guess both sides can play that game.
*******
Toc: All this talk about Russians are back and new cold war has started is nonsense.
******
SouthAmerica: I have news for you.
The new cold war has been going on for a while since the United States started moving into the Soviet Union old circle of influence.
The United States trying to be the protector of Georgia â that is a big joke - The US building a missile shield in Poland, and the Russians returning its military to Cuba. Hugo Chavez close ties to the Russians and the Russians building Chavez military.
I have been watching American television for years building up the idea that the Russians after the complete collapse of the Soviet Union turned into a country completely powerless, and without any influence anywhere.
I never understood why anyone with a minimum amount of common sense and brain would think that the Russians became so powerless militarily when the Russians have a large arsenal of nuclear weapons and the capability to strike anywhere around the world.
And just God knows what surprises they have in store from space since the United States space program had a complete collapse and Americans had to ask the Russians for a ride on the Russians space vehicles for a period of time.
For all practical purposes the US space program is stuck in the 1970âs â I like to remind you that the Shuttle program was approved when Richard Nixon was the US president in the early 1970âs â They still working today in the bugs of the Shuttle that was supposed to have been fixed by the late 1970âs and everything the Shuttle program has achieved up to this point that was the goal of achieving it by 1979.
The US space program is at least 30 years behind schedule.
In the meantime God knows what the Russians have achieved on their program in the last 30 years.
Here is another actual example of US decline in the area of its space program.
In August 2003, Brazil had a major set back on its space program when a rocket exploded in the launching pad 3 days before was supposed to be lifted into space. It was a major catastrophe and a lot of people died in that accident.
The United States did not offered any help to the Brazilian government and the Brazilian government understand why â today the US can't help even themselves in matters of a space program; just look at the mess of the US Shuttle program
The Russians came to the rescue of the Brazilian government, and the Russians helped the Brazilian scientists in that time of extreme need.
***
Most of this information had been posted on the website of the Brazilian space agency.
November 22, 2004
â¦The perspectives of the Russian-Brazilian cooperation in the sphere of space exploration have been outlined the in 1997 intergovernmental agreement "On cooperation in peaceful research and exploration of outer space."
According to Mr. Perminov, Brazil is willing to establish close cooperation with Russia in this sphere. "I would mention in this case objective and subjective factors. Objectively, Russia and the United States are two space superpowers. However, at the tragic time of the 2003 VLS-1 rocket explosion at the space center in Alcantara (Brazil), Russia was the only country to extend a helping hand to Brazilian colleagues," the head of Roskosmos emphasized.
Russian specialists worked at the site of the incident. They came up with a series of solutions and presented them to the Brazilian side. Brazilian experts decided that safety recommendations presented by Russian specialists were the most acceptable both in technical and financial terms. The Russian Federal Space Agency had also outlined several technical and organizational solutions that helped the Brazilians to start immediately the reconstruction of the space center and make relevant corrections in the design of the VLS rocket.
"All our recommendations were considered the most optimal by the Brazilian side," Mr. Perminov stressed.
.
.
August 16, 2008
SouthAmerica: Yesterday I watched the President of Georgia making his case on television against the Russian invasion of Georgia.
As he was speaking you could see two American flags one on each side of him.
He mentioned how much Georgians hated the Russians since 1922 when they became part of the Soviet Union.
I guess from todayâs perspective that might be true, but I doubt that was true in the mid-1920âs when Joseph Stalin rose to power and became the dictator of the Soviet Union.
Joseph Stalin was Georgian and the Georgians probably were proud that one of their sons was the dictator of the Soviet Union â and Stalin ruled the Soviet Empire for almost 30 years.
Maybe after Stalinâs death in 1953 the Georgians decided that they hated the Soviet Union. But as long as Stalin was in power the Georgians were happy with that set up.
Anyway, it seems like everybody want to rewrite history to fit their latest agenda.
I turned the TV channel to the Olympic games when Condi Rice started giving her speech since I could care less about what she had to say.
I find very amusing all the suggestions of the talking heads regarding what the United States can do to punish Russia.
My suggestion would be for the Americans to boycott Russian Vodka and caviar. That would really show to the Russians what the United States is capable of doing to punish them.
.
August 16, 2008
SouthAmerica: Yesterday I watched the President of Georgia making his case on television against the Russian invasion of Georgia.
As he was speaking you could see two American flags one on each side of him.
He mentioned how much Georgians hated the Russians since 1922 when they became part of the Soviet Union.
I guess from todayâs perspective that might be true, but I doubt that was true in the mid-1920âs when Joseph Stalin rose to power and became the dictator of the Soviet Union.
Joseph Stalin was Georgian and the Georgians probably were proud that one of their sons was the dictator of the Soviet Union â and Stalin ruled the Soviet Empire for almost 30 years.
Maybe after Stalinâs death in 1953 the Georgians decided that they hated the Soviet Union. But as long as Stalin was in power the Georgians were happy with that set up.
Anyway, it seems like everybody want to rewrite history to fit their latest agenda.
I turned the TV channel to the Olympic games when Condi Rice started giving her speech since I could care less about what she had to say.
I find very amusing all the suggestions of the talking heads regarding what the United States can do to punish Russia.
My suggestion would be for the Americans to boycott Russian Vodka and caviar. That would really show to the Russians what the United States is capable of doing to punish them.
.
Quote from southamerica:
.
August 16, 2008
SouthAmerica: Yesterday I watched the President of Georgia making his case on television against the Russian invasion of Georgia.
As he was speaking you could see two American flags one on each side of him.
He mentioned how much Georgians hated the Russians since 1922 when they became part of the Soviet Union.
I guess from todayâs perspective that might be true, but I doubt that was true in the mid-1920âs when Joseph Stalin rose to power and became the dictator of the Soviet Union.
Joseph Stalin was Georgian and the Georgians probably were proud that one of their sons was the dictator of the Soviet Union â and Stalin ruled the Soviet Empire for almost 30 years.
Maybe after Stalinâs death in 1953 the Georgians decided that they hated the Soviet Union. But as long as Stalin was in power the Georgians were happy with that set up.
Anyway, it seems like everybody want to rewrite history to fit their latest agenda.
I turned the TV channel to the Olympic games when Condi Rice started giving her speech since I could care less about what she had to say.
I find very amusing all the suggestions of the talking heads regarding what the United States can do to punish Russia.
My suggestion would be for the Americans to boycott Russian Vodka and caviar. That would really show to the Russians what the United States is capable to do to punish them.
.
Or, we could sign a missle defense pact with Poland. Bet the Ruskies didn't count on that. Or maybe we boycott the winter olympics? Or maybe we let some more former Soviet satelite countries into NATO. Or maybe we really put the screws to Iran (read: military strike) since they aren't complying with UN mandates and Russia isn't helping.
Russia has over played their hand. They HAD some leverage by giving the impresison they might be persuaded to put pressure on Iran, but no one will expect that now. So what happens, SA? What happens now that that it looks like the sanctions against Iran won't work?