100% agree
We can't control the unknown, all we can do is control the reaction using defined risk management and a sound trading plan.
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The Most Gut Wrenching Trades are the Winners
- Thread starter aeliodon
- Start date
100% agree
We can't control the unknown, all we can do is control the reaction using defined risk management and a sound trading plan.
aeliodon
Your last post is right on the money.
What folks need to realise is we are not talking about newbies trying this or that, win here lose there. NO. We are talking of serious professional traders who not only have and know have sound methodology and financially well equipped to trade the methodology- but have yet to develop the mental attitude required to make big money. Did you hear that !!! Its all in the mind, thats what seperates the best from the rest.
Its a process that takes years - developing a system, believing it and developing the required mental attitude to succeed. I spent 2 years as a breakeven trader before it dawned on me what was required (mentally) to win big money. Dont be fooled by folks who say we go for singles and there are no home runs. Big money is there in trend trading but not for the impatient.
As aelidon says you could lose or scratch 8 trades and win big on 2 trades. The sequence of trades could be 8 losing trades in a row. Now after this how many out there will hold and pyramid the last 2 winning trades. chances are you will bolt with out with chicken feed because of fear induced by the losing trades.
Your last post is right on the money.
What folks need to realise is we are not talking about newbies trying this or that, win here lose there. NO. We are talking of serious professional traders who not only have and know have sound methodology and financially well equipped to trade the methodology- but have yet to develop the mental attitude required to make big money. Did you hear that !!! Its all in the mind, thats what seperates the best from the rest.
Its a process that takes years - developing a system, believing it and developing the required mental attitude to succeed. I spent 2 years as a breakeven trader before it dawned on me what was required (mentally) to win big money. Dont be fooled by folks who say we go for singles and there are no home runs. Big money is there in trend trading but not for the impatient.
As aelidon says you could lose or scratch 8 trades and win big on 2 trades. The sequence of trades could be 8 losing trades in a row. Now after this how many out there will hold and pyramid the last 2 winning trades. chances are you will bolt with out with chicken feed because of fear induced by the losing trades.
gm aeliodon,
"The Most Gut Wrenching Trades are the Winners"
It is all in the mind as has been already mentioned.
Once you have got to grips with the mechanics of trading ( less than 20% of the journey) the fun bit begins.
You need to create a philosophy all of your own based around how well you know yourself, and it is into this philosophy that you can apply the newly learned mechanics of trading.
One of your first decisions will be " am I here to collect points or am I here to make money"
Most people cannot tell the difference.
Anyway, I choose the later and so my day is made up of a number of small trades which add to a consistent number of net positive tics each day.
Others may say that I do not have the stomach for position trading and they would be right.... dead right in fact.
I have read Posters comments stating the number of lots they are carrying through a weekend because of their brilliant analysis. In some cases I calculate their margin requirements to be beyond 2 million dollars all swinging upon their brilliant analysis.
As someone earlier stated " consistency is the name of the game"
I imagine if that person and I shared a beer we would find we have a lot in common.
As always, take what you will from these few comments and discard the rest.
regards
f9
"The Most Gut Wrenching Trades are the Winners"
It is all in the mind as has been already mentioned.
Once you have got to grips with the mechanics of trading ( less than 20% of the journey) the fun bit begins.
You need to create a philosophy all of your own based around how well you know yourself, and it is into this philosophy that you can apply the newly learned mechanics of trading.
One of your first decisions will be " am I here to collect points or am I here to make money"
Most people cannot tell the difference.
Anyway, I choose the later and so my day is made up of a number of small trades which add to a consistent number of net positive tics each day.
Others may say that I do not have the stomach for position trading and they would be right.... dead right in fact.
I have read Posters comments stating the number of lots they are carrying through a weekend because of their brilliant analysis. In some cases I calculate their margin requirements to be beyond 2 million dollars all swinging upon their brilliant analysis.
As someone earlier stated " consistency is the name of the game"
I imagine if that person and I shared a beer we would find we have a lot in common.
As always, take what you will from these few comments and discard the rest.
regards
f9
Agree and disagree.
Traders are human beings. Human beings need to experience pain to become stronger. Without some swing and risk, one will never experience pain to grow.
It's all good to remain in the status quo and seek consistency, if that is your goal, but some are looking to grow. Can't grow into a star without some pain. I know traders who been in the game for a decade and make 1-2k a day. That's fine, but that's being consistenly mediocre. Again, nothing wrong with that.
Traders are human beings. Human beings need to experience pain to become stronger. Without some swing and risk, one will never experience pain to grow.
It's all good to remain in the status quo and seek consistency, if that is your goal, but some are looking to grow. Can't grow into a star without some pain. I know traders who been in the game for a decade and make 1-2k a day. That's fine, but that's being consistenly mediocre. Again, nothing wrong with that.
Quote from Cutten:
If you are a "star" then you will achieve very good results on modest size over a number of years. You will make 20-30% per annum with 5-10% drawdowns. That is enough to raise billions of capital and become one of the richest people in the world in about 10-15 years, if you choose.
Or you can trade the same way, with somewhat more risk, for your own account, and make 50%+ per annum with 10-20% drawdowns. That is enough to become independently wealthy within 10-15 years, or sooner if you have a decent amount of starting capital.
Or you can swing for the fences and trade much bigger size. Then you are practically guaranteed to have a 50% drawdown at some point. Note that this 50%+ drawdown will occur, *even if you are trading absolutely correctly*, purely because of the random factor in trading. If you are risking 10%+ on each trade, a series of 4-5 losers will cause this kind of loss, and this will happen eventually even if each trade setup was a good one. Now this is assuming you are trading well. If you actually start to trade poorly - which will happen from time to time, and is especially likely to happen if you lose half your money - then your drawdown will be magnified. The thing about those kinds of drawdowns is they tend to be psychologically destabilizing and tend to magnify themselves through the deterioration of confidence and the urge to "make it back" on the part of the trader. That is how 50% drawdowns become drawdowns of 80-90% or even a total blowout.
I urge you to look at people who have been successful in the markets. How many of them swing for the fences on a sustained basis? Consider that the more "sensible" traders have still had some very hefty losses. People like Soros and Paul Tudor Jones have all at some point lost 30% of capital during particularly bad periods. If they were trading the kind of risk you are suggesting, they would have been out of business, it's as simple as that. Look at Jesse Livermore - he was a very talented trader, but he blew up several times and eventually it contributed to his suicide.
Part of becoming a star is to manage risk, to guarantee that no matter how wrong you are on a trade, no matter how long a losing streak you have, you are still around to survive and play the game again. You don't do that by betting the ranch - that's what pikers do and it is the #1 reason they blow up so often.
Quote from Tracy McGreedy:
Agree and disagree.
Traders are human beings. Human beings need to experience pain to become stronger. Without some swing and risk, one will never experience pain to grow.
It's all good to remain in the status quo and seek consistency, if that is your goal, but some are looking to grow. Can't grow into a star without some pain. I know traders who been in the game for a decade and make 1-2k a day. That's fine, but that's being consistenly mediocre. Again, nothing wrong with that.
Interesting analysis.
Given you are speaking from experience you appear to have hobbled yourself with constraints.
I think that consistency is among the most difficult of human achievements and I really cannot comment on 1-2k per day.
regards
f9