The infamous "Blackbox" Theory

I suggest to continue in another thread.
either the scalping ES thread or threads in the new strategy trading forum.
this is only to avoid the bad rep the 'black box' name has.
 
Last Question, Does anyone know of a firm that will hook you up with a DA platform and a "Black Box" system that goes with it?
A "Black Box" with credentials.
 
Originally posted by Ninja


Such a program is called 'ATS' - an automated trading system. And yes they exist and no you can't buy one, because nobody who has developed a running ATS would sell it at a price you can afford.

So if you want to have an ATS you need to make your own.
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I have to disagree here. If you have a system developed for TradeStation, you have a multitude of ways to execute the system.

Open an account directly with TradeStation (not recommended) and you can autotrade with their TS6 (again not recommended). Stocks only.

For both futures and stox you can use software written by 3rd parties to execute your TS signals via Interactive Brokers. If you have an active system, this might be a viable option for the cheap commission.

For futures only, you can use eFloorTrade. They developed an interface between TS and PATS that works very nicely. Commish is higher at $10/rt. But they actually answer the phone if you call them, unlike IB.

And if you want to let go of the reins entirely, there are a multitude of system brokers that will trade your system for you. They wont do well with active/scalping systems, but for swing trades that is an option. Its not a true "automated" trading system, but it does take you out of the execution picture.

With any of the choices above, you could plug in your black box and walk away while it does its thing.

What you have in your account when you walk back is entirely dependent on the quality of the black box. Most likely, you wont like the results:eek: The big challenge in this game is developing a system that really works. Turning those signals into real trades is the easy part.
 
Originally posted by andy4
Hi,

this is all very new to me :-(

What would be a good way , and what (programme, language), should I look at learning, on how to programme a trading system ?

Would buying something like Metastock, work and learning how to use it, give me the option to set up my computer in the a.m. and let it run all day ?

Sorry if this is unclear, really not sure what I need to be asking :-)

Later, Andy
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Go to http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ats-forum/



:cool:
 
Originally posted by jeffm


I have to disagree here. If you have a system developed for TradeStation, you have a multitude of ways to execute the system.

Open an account directly with TradeStation (not recommended) and you can autotrade with their TS6 (again not recommended). Stocks only.

For both futures and stox you can use software written by 3rd parties to execute your TS signals via Interactive Brokers. If you have an active system, this might be a viable option for the cheap commission.

For futures only, you can use eFloorTrade. They developed an interface between TS and PATS that works very nicely. Commish is higher at $10/rt. But they actually answer the phone if you call them, unlike IB.

And if you want to let go of the reins entirely, there are a multitude of system brokers that will trade your system for you. They wont do well with active/scalping systems, but for swing trades that is an option. Its not a true "automated" trading system, but it does take you out of the execution picture.

With any of the choices above, you could plug in your black box and walk away while it does its thing.

What you have in your account when you walk back is entirely dependent on the quality of the black box. Most likely, you wont like the results:eek: The big challenge in this game is developing a system that really works. Turning those signals into real trades is the easy part.
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Why do you disagree? Basically you same the same as I do that there is no finished ATS out there to buy. Of course you can use any software you like at a basis but then you have to develop the rest by yourself.
 
I dont think we disagree actually. The thread is getting confusing about what everyone means when they say "ATS" or "Black Box".

When you said, "You cannot buy an ATS", you meant an all-in-one, turnkey kind of system. You are correct about that, afaik.

"ATS" as just the signal execution part of the equation, imo.
"Black Box" is the system/logic part of the equation.
 
Originally posted by tntneo
that's right.
(edit) well, both right.

you don't need to be a super trader. but you do need to really understand what trading is about.

System trading, ATS or strategy trading whatever you call it, is not a shortcut to success. it's the end result of a lot of work, learning experience, discipline, process.

tntneo
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Thats basically true.

The point is that an ATS allows you to trade in a way that you can't do without an ATS because it eliminates the human in front of the computer - thats the next step in evolution coming from a mechanical system which needs a human to enter the trades in a computer. You will never be as fast with your senses, logic, reaction, etc. as the computer. And the ATS is always disciplined, waiting hours, days, weeks with full attention until a special market situation occurs and than it makes the trade without hesitation. :cool:
 
Originally posted by jeffm
I dont think we disagree actually. The thread is getting confusing about what everyone means when they say "ATS" or "Black Box".

When you said, "You cannot buy an ATS", you meant an all-in-one, turnkey kind of system. You are correct about that, afaik.

"ATS" as just the signal execution part of the equation, imo.
"Black Box" is the system/logic part of the equation.
More...

Okay, now I understand. I always see ATS as the whole system - (hardware), software, programmed rules, signal execution, connection to the exchange or retail broker, etc.

:)
 
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