The Herd, Vaccine and Natural Immunity Thread....

[jem]

Fauci implicity admits demand vaccines without taking into account natural immunity is something they need to consider.



https://news.grabien.com/story-dr-fauci-if-those-natural-immunity-should-get-vaccine-i-dont

If you don't like the source... who cares...
there is a video of fauci saying this on CNN... watch it.. I did. Its accurate.

TRANSCRIPT:

GUPTA: “And just real quickly, there was a study that came out of Israel about natural immunity. And basically, the headline was that natural immunity provides a lot of protection, even better than the vaccines alone. How — what do — what are people to make of that? So, as we talk about vaccine mandates, there are — I get calls all the time, people say, ‘I have already had Covid. I’m protected. And now the study says maybe even more protected than the vaccine alone.’ Should they also get the vaccine? How do you make the case to them?”

FAUCI: “You know, that’s a really good point, Sanjay. I don’t have a really firm answer for you on that. That’s something that we’re going to have to discuss regarding the durability of the response. The one thing the paper from Israel didn’t tell you is whether or not as high as the protection is with natural infection, what’s the durability compared to the durability of a vaccine? So, it is conceivable that you got infected. You’re protected, but you may not be protected for an indefinite period of time. So I think that is something that we need to sit down and discuss seriously, because you very appropriately pointed out it is an issue. And there could be an argument for saying what you said.”

 

[jem]

This is placed here to remind the anti science anti data -- gwb-lying always..

here it is the best data and incredibly precise work... showing natural immunity is 7 to 13 times when comparing naive vaccinees to those who previously had covid. We should also not natural immunity was 27 times better at preventing asymptomatic covid.




https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.24.21262415v1

Results SARS-CoV-2-naïve vaccinees had a 13.06-fold (95% CI, 8.08 to 21.11) increased risk for breakthrough infection with the Delta variant compared to those previously infected, when the first event (infection or vaccination) occurred during January and February of 2021. The increased risk was significant (P<0.001) for symptomatic disease as well. When allowing the infection to occur at any time before vaccination (from March 2020 to February 2021), evidence of waning natural immunity was demonstrated, though SARS-CoV-2 naïve vaccinees had a 5.96-fold (95% CI, 4.85 to 7.33) increased risk for breakthrough infection and a 7.13-fold (95% CI, 5.51 to 9.21) increased risk for symptomatic disease. SARS-CoV-2-naïve vaccinees were also at a greater risk for COVID-19-related-hospitalizations compared to those that were previously infected.

Conclusions This study demonstrated that natural immunity confers longer lasting and stronger protection against infection, symptomatic disease and hospitalization caused by the Delta variant of SARS-CoV-2, compared to the BNT162b2 two-dose vaccine-induced immunity. Individuals who were both previously infected with SARS-CoV-2 and given a single dose of the vaccine gained additional protection against the Delta variant.

 

[Bugenhagen]

OK, Jem and the "not taking into account natural immunity" bit but never addresses the millions who would have already died contracting covid to aquire "natural immunity" is pissing me off. And it's pissing me off people who could stop him are just letting him go on and on and on with this.

Time to make him shut it? Does anyone but GWB want this to continue?

 

[jem]

hey bugenmoron...

... I take into account the millions of deaths ... by explaining that the vaccines are good for the high risk... I think they should take to their doctor and take them in the vast majority of circumstance... even though the vaxxed high risk do present a unquantified but potentially fatal risk to society.


Why not do a real a cost benefit analysis rather than push a vax everyone at all costs moronic stance.

Why do you morons all pretend there is no downside to a temporary vaccine?
Don't you read the science?
Do you comprehend the risks of a temporary vaccine during a pandemic which fades over time? Boosters for life of the pandemic do not concern you?

 

[Bugenhagen]

hey bugenmoron...

... I take into account the millions of deaths ... by explaining that the vaccines are good for the high risk... I think they should take to their doctor and take them in the vast majority of circumstance... even though the vaxxed high risk do present a unquantified but potentially fatal risk to society.


Why not do a real a cost benefit analysis rather than push a vax everyone at all costs moronic stance.

Why do you morons all pretend there is no downside to a temporary vaccine?
Don't you read the science?
Do you comprehend the risks of a temporary vaccine during a pandemic which fades over time? Boosters for life of the pandemic do not concern you?

 

[gwb-trading]

This is placed here to remind the anti science anti data -- gwb-lying always..

here it is the best data and incredibly precise work... showing natural immunity is 7 to 13 times when comparing naive vaccinees to those who previously had covid. We should also not natural immunity was 27 times better at preventing asymptomatic covid.




https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.24.21262415v1

Results SARS-CoV-2-naïve vaccinees had a 13.06-fold (95% CI, 8.08 to 21.11) increased risk for breakthrough infection with the Delta variant compared to those previously infected, when the first event (infection or vaccination) occurred during January and February of 2021. The increased risk was significant (P<0.001) for symptomatic disease as well. When allowing the infection to occur at any time before vaccination (from March 2020 to February 2021), evidence of waning natural immunity was demonstrated, though SARS-CoV-2 naïve vaccinees had a 5.96-fold (95% CI, 4.85 to 7.33) increased risk for breakthrough infection and a 7.13-fold (95% CI, 5.51 to 9.21) increased risk for symptomatic disease. SARS-CoV-2-naïve vaccinees were also at a greater risk for COVID-19-related-hospitalizations compared to those that were previously infected.

Conclusions This study demonstrated that natural immunity confers longer lasting and stronger protection against infection, symptomatic disease and hospitalization caused by the Delta variant of SARS-CoV-2, compared to the BNT162b2 two-dose vaccine-induced immunity. Individuals who were both previously infected with SARS-CoV-2 and given a single dose of the vaccine gained additional protection against the Delta variant.

Yet there are many respected studies showing the unvaccinated are more likely to get Covid a second time.

CDC: Unvaccinated more likely to get COVID-19 a second time
https://www.wreg.com/news/cdc-unvaccinated-more-likely-to-get-covid-19-a-second-time/

Health officials say it is important for people who’ve recovered from COVID-19 to get vaccinated.

A new CDC study shows survivors who ignored that advice and had COVID are more than twice as likely to get re-infected.

(More at above url)

The CDC Study...

Reduced Risk of Reinfection with SARS-CoV-2 After COVID-19 Vaccination — Kentucky, May–June 2021
https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7032e1.htm?s_cid=mm7032e1_w

Summary
What is already known about this topic?
Reinfection with human coronaviruses, including SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes COVID-19, has been documented. Currently, limited evidence concerning the protection afforded by vaccination against reinfection with SARS-CoV-2 is available.

What is added by this report?
Among Kentucky residents infected with SARS-CoV-2 in 2020, vaccination status of those reinfected during May–June 2021 was compared with that of residents who were not reinfected. In this case-control study, being unvaccinated was associated with 2.34 times the odds of reinfection compared with being fully vaccinated.

What are the implications for public health practice?
To reduce their likelihood for future infection, all eligible persons should be offered COVID-19 vaccine, even those with previous SARS-CoV-2 infection.

(Full study at above CDC url)

 

[jem]

GWB... your study is selected bullshit.. in fact total garbage.. one month during the what was probably most efficacious period for vaccines.


It cut the study off just as other data shows the vaccines started to fade in efficacy.

We know the vaccines work temporarily.

---
Although laboratory evidence suggests that antibody responses following COVID-19 vaccination provide better neutralization of some circulating variants than does natural infection (1,2), few real-world epidemiologic studies exist to support the benefit of vaccination for previously infected persons. This report details the findings of a case-control evaluation of the association between vaccination and SARS-CoV-2 reinfection in Kentucky during May–June 2021

 

[murray t turtle]

Fauci implicity admits demand vaccines without taking into account natural immunity is something they need to consider.



https://news.grabien.com/story-dr-fauci-if-those-natural-immunity-should-get-vaccine-i-dont

If you don't like the source... who cares...
there is a video of fauci saying this on CNN... watch it.. I did. Its accurate.

TRANSCRIPT:

GUPTA: “And just real quickly, there was a study that came out of Israel about natural immunity. And basically, the headline was that natural immunity provides a lot of protection, even better than the vaccines alone. How — what do — what are people to make of that? So, as we talk about vaccine mandates, there are — I get calls all the time, people say, ‘I have already had Covid. I’m protected. And now the study says maybe even more protected than the vaccine alone.’ Should they also get the vaccine? How do you make the case to them?”

FAUCI: “You know, that’s a really good point, Sanjay. I don’t have a really firm answer for you on that. That’s something that we’re going to have to discuss regarding the durability of the response. The one thing the paper from Israel didn’t tell you is whether or not as high as the protection is with natural infection, what’s the durability compared to the durability of a vaccine? So, it is conceivable that you got infected. You’re protected, but you may not be protected for an indefinite period of time. So I think that is something that we need to sit down and discuss seriously, because you very appropriately pointed out it is an issue. And there could be an argument for saying what you said.”

%%
He flip flopped on vaccine mandates also;was against them
Israel has enough guts to tell the truth ''95 %of severe cases in hospitals are fully vacccinated Duck duck go search. They have about a 70% vaccine jab taken rate.
SO in addition to religious/redemptive exemption, medical exemption\ there should be a ''common sense exemption''...........................................................................

 

[jem]

if the number is even half that ...
that is not a good a sign.

do you have a link to that info?
---

I found it...
I had to leave google and got to MSN.com to find it...
its from a doctor in Isreal...
I don't speak hebrew... but I have seen that doctor before...

I can't vouch for this... but If anyone speaks Hebrew...

https://twitter.com/x/status/1423322271503028228

%%
He flip flopped on vaccine mandates also;was against them
Israel has enough guts to tell the truth ''95 %of severe cases in hospitals are fully vacccinated Duck duck go search. They have about a 70% vaccine jab taken rate.
SO in addition to religious/redemptive exemption, medical exemption\ there should be a ''common sense exemption''...........................................................................

 

[Bugenhagen]

hey bugenmoron...

... I take into account the millions of deaths ... by explaining that the vaccines are good for the high risk... I think they should take to their doctor and take them in the vast majority of circumstance... even though the vaxxed high risk do present a unquantified but potentially fatal risk to society.


Why not do a real a cost benefit analysis rather than push a vax everyone at all costs moronic stance.

Why do you morons all pretend there is no downside to a temporary vaccine?
Don't you read the science?
Do you comprehend the risks of a temporary vaccine during a pandemic which fades over time? Boosters for life of the pandemic do not concern you?

OK J, let's get serious a minute as it's clear you are habituated to me wagging my finger and I learned of a serious covid infection today in large part caused by disinformation monkeys. (A friend's family)

Your mind is muddled, you have no insight others have not considered but weighed differently. You have one of those asymmetric brains, capable in a couple of areas, highly deficient in others. GWB has project delivery experience to guesstimate a critical path you lack. Your ideas were all thought of and put to the side because of implimentation barriers.

He is stabbing in the dark in the correct direction most days on this subject. You are not.

You are both mad though.