The Herd, Vaccine and Natural Immunity Thread....

[userque]

GWB-does.

My understanding is that @gwb-trading understands what herd immunity is, but doesn't think we can get there, with covid, without vaccines, due to the specific nature of this virus and our bodies' reaction to it.

The latest information that I've quickly seen on that subject seems to agree with him.

 

[userque]

eh...given enough time and enough dead, herd immunity is feasible. We've had viruses killing humans for tens of thousands of years. You don't think a few of those have gone extinct? Hell, was smallpox killing many in Europe b4 it wiped the Indians out in the Americas? Was syphilis even a thing in the Americas before it started wiping out Europeans?

FWIW:
The human genome contains billions of pieces of information and around 22,000 genes, but not all of it is, strictly speaking, human. Eight percent of our DNA consists of remnants of ancient viruses, and another 40 percent is made up of repetitive strings of genetic letters that is also thought to have a viral origin.

Good points. I considered this earlier.

Imo, we can achieve "herd immunity" with respect to the virus being fatal; but, at the same time, be unable to be immune to infection and mild symptoms.

Those having fatal reactions will ... die off. Those having only mild reactions will remain.

EDIT: We are talking hypothetically, without a vaccine.

 

[Cuddles]

EDIT: We are talking hypothetically, without a vaccine.

natural selection is anything but hypothetical.

FWIW: smallpox still remained a major killer in Europe, but if we're talking percentages, they had much better odds than the Amerindians. So it's hard to argue that some level of herd immunity is achievable. To what degree is it morally acceptable is the question.

edit: syphilis is caused by a bacteria so not exactly the best analogue

 

[Mercor]

The path to herd immunity with Covid-19 is via vaccinated herd immunity.

Vaccines only help the body create antibodies....Antibodies are created 2 ways....by catching the virus and living or getting the vaccine to create the antibodies
The end result is the same...creation of antibodies

 

[jem]

below is just one of the multliple times the lying paid propganda nazi asshole has denied the possibility of herd immunity.

part of his purposefully lies are because he keeps saying only antibodies can make one immune...
he denies the existence of T Cell immunity and cross reactive immunity.. in the healthy because he is vaccine propaganda nazi.

Its diabolically and evil as all fuck.
Him... and some teachers unions are going risk the immune systems of healthy kids and get them hooked on boosters for life.

That's not what it said at all. Let's read the Results --- which once again shows that there is no "natural herd immunity" because antibodies do not last in many people naturally infected. And also outlines T-Cell response (not immunity) that one of the tests covered (out of the entire series of tests). Your attempt to take one sentence out of context does not change the reality.
...

 

[gwb-trading]

natural selection is anything but hypothetical.

FWIW: smallpox still remained a major killer in Europe, but if we're talking percentages, they had much better odds than the Amerindians. So it's hard to argue that some level of herd immunity is achievable. To what degree is it morally acceptable is the question.

edit: syphilis is caused by a bacteria so not exactly the best analogue

Let's provide some insight regarding smallpox in Europe... it's not like smallpox stopped in Europe until vaccination was introduced.

In 18th century Europe, smallpox was a leading cause of death, killing an estimated 400,000 Europeans each year.[85] Up to 10 percent of Swedish infants died of smallpox each year,[15] and the death rate of infants in Russia might have been even higher.[72]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smallpox
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smallpox

 

[userque]

Vaccines only help the body create antibodies....Antibodies are created 2 ways....by catching the virus and living or getting the vaccine to create the antibodies
The end result is the same...creation of antibodies

The thing is, you don't know beforehand who will, and who won't survive or become seriously ill by catching the virus first, so many choose/hope to 'catch' the vaccine first.

 

[jem]

Statistically speaking we do know beforehand that healthy kids do not need the vax.

We have millions of people where I live.
Over 41% of our population is under 29.

We have zero deaths for kids 9 and under
2 deaths for kids under 19
18 deaths under 29.

and you can bet almost everyone one of those was a high risk person or kid.


https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/tracking-coronavirus-cases-san-diego-county

The thing is, you don't know beforehand who will, and who won't survive or become seriously ill by catching the virus first, so many choose/hope to 'catch' the vaccine first.

 

[gwb-trading]

Statistically speaking we do know beforehand that healthy kids do not need the vax.

We have millions of people where I live.
Over 41% of our population is under 29.

We have zero deaths for kids 9 and under
2 deaths for kids under 19
18 deaths under 29.

and you can bet almost everyone one of those was a high risk person or kid.


https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/tracking-coronavirus-cases-san-diego-county

You should be proud to live in California. They are one of the states leading in vaccinations in the U.S. Your state is showing the path forward. Thanks to their high vaccination rate California is much less impacted from Delta than Florida and Texas. Once the kids are vaccinated -- the state will be even safer for children and adults.

In milestone, over 80% of eligible Californians now partially vaccinated against COVID-19
https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2021-08-31/80-percent-vaccinated-california-covid-19

 

[userque]

Statistically speaking we do know beforehand that healthy kids do not need the vax.

It's still a gamble on the individual level. It's the individual that has to decide whether to guess that they'll be OK if/when they encounter covid without being vaccinated.

Stats are no guarantee on the individual level. Many people later concluded, on their death beds, that their gamble was foolish.

We have millions of people where I live.
Over 41% of our population is under 29.

We have zero deaths for kids 9 and under
2 deaths for kids under 19
18 deaths under 29.

And what percentage are vaccinated where you live?