The Fed has no choice but to raise interest rates and crush the market

[Tsing Tao]

When you use your (US) Visa, you're paying with dollars. Your obligation to repay is with dollars. And your statement will be in dollars.

And maybe some day in the future the federal government will, like those state governments, decree by FIAT that gold is legal tender. And then it will be.

Regarding Visa, you are not paying with dollars. You are paying with credit - a promissory note, if you will. So credit is money too. Hmm.

So is gold money in those states that accept it? I didn't get your answer on that (and I suspect I might not ever get it).

 

[Ricter]

Regarding Visa, you are not paying with dollars. You are paying with credit - a promissory note, if you will. So credit is money too. Hmm.

So is gold money in those states that accept it? I didn't get your answer on that (and I suspect I might not ever get it).

In your conception, everything is money. And that's a useless definition.

Two people can agree to whatever terms they like for a trade. In farm country, where I live, work is often exchanged without so much as an IOU written down. Not even backed by paper!!

 

[Tsing Tao]

In your conception, everything is money. And that's a useless definition.

Two people can agree to whatever terms they like for a trade. In farm country, where I live, work is often exchanged without so much as an IOU written down. Not even backed by paper!!

Isn't that interesting!

So are gold and silver money in those states?

 

[Ricter]

Isn't that interesting!

So are gold and silver money in those states?

Everything is money, everywhere, as you're pointing out.

 

[der_kommissar]

Everything is money, everywhere, as you're pointing out.

IOW, Ricter lost the argument.

 

[Max E.]

No more QE, and the market is through, i guess we will see if Janet Yellen will don the beard, and save the markets like her predecessor.

 

[Tsing Tao]

No more QE, and the market is through, i guess we will see if Janet Yellen will don the beard, and save the markets like her predecessor.

I don't believe they'll ever be able to raise rates. If they actually do pull it off, it'll be a quick reversal back to zero. They're trying to wean the market off the drugs that they, themselves, were responsible for giving out.

Meanwhile the greater economy hasn't improved at all and will continue to struggle.

 

[der_kommissar]

I don't believe they'll ever be able to raise rates. If they actually do pull it off, it'll be a quick reversal back to zero. They're trying to wean the market off the drugs that they, themselves, were responsible for giving out.

Meanwhile the greater economy hasn't improved at all and will continue to struggle.

Agreed. We've seen this movie before...the "good cop/bad cop" routine for years now. They talk tough about raising rates when the markets are "irrationally exuberant" and then flip the script on the way down. The only difference is that the "management" of markets has become a full-time endeavor with nary a day of price discovery without CB interference.

I can only shake my head at the people who actually believe that they will ever normalize rates. What world do they live in?

 

[Tsing Tao]

Agreed. We've seen this movie before...the "good cop/bad cop" routine for years now. They talk tough about raising rates when the markets are "irrationally exuberant" and then flip the script on the way down. The only difference is that the "management" of markets has become a full-time endeavor with nary a day of price discovery without CB interference.

I can only shake my head at the people who actually believe that they will ever normalize rates. What world do they live in?

They live in a world called "Academia". It is a world filled with unicorns and rainbows where Krugman tiptoes through fields of tulips while singing an inflation happy song. It's a world where people are sheltered from real life experience, and if something doesn't work, it's because you didn't do enough of it, or spend enough, or throw enough at it.

Piezoe lives there. Let's ask him about it!

 

[fhl]

Besides stealing the interest on your bank accounts and jacking up the price of your health care, just exactly what has this gov't done for, or to, everyone in the middle? (Those who are not one percent or at the bottom where everything is free.)

They're going to grind the middle into dust until the middle won't take it anymore. Unfortunately, it looks like we're a long way from the middle rebelling.