The End of (the catholic) Church

[Free Thinker]

Quote from jem:

So now the orwellian left considers the protection of human life superstition.

your supertious beliefs keeps people like you from coming to a sensible position that we can all agree to that would end the abortion debate.
i think most sensible people would agree that there should be no abortion beyond point of viability.
then you have the stupid catholics. they refuse to even allow contraception even though 98% of sexually active catholic women in the us ignore church dictates and use it.

 

[trefoil]

Quote from kut2k2:

Most Catholics are fine with the current contraception policy, so what's bothering YOU?

The correct answer is that the Church is affiliated with - hospitals, nursing homes, etc. - but the services provided and the staff employed in these places does not have to be, although it may be, Catholic. They have no right, never had the right, and never will have the right to dictate to American citizens what they can do or not do based on Catholic doctrine just because those citizens are employed in places that are affiliated with the Church. What are they gonna do, tell a Hindu doctor he can't worship Ganesh? Obviously no.
The bishops can squeal all they want, it will get them where it's supposed to - nowhere.
Exempted from the rule are churches and anything tightly connected to a church, like say a program to feed folks run out of a church. Obviously.
They are being expected to follow the law of the land. That's all.

 

[jem]

Quote from trefoil:

The correct answer is that the Church is affiliated with - hospitals, nursing homes, etc. - but the services provided and the staff employed in these places does not have to be, although it may be, Catholic. They have no right, never had the right, and never will have the right to dictate to American citizens what they can do or not do based on Catholic doctrine just because those citizens are employed in places that are affiliated with the Church. What are they gonna do, tell a Hindu doctor he can't worship Ganesh? Obviously no.
The bishops can squeal all they want, it will get them where it's supposed to - nowhere.
Exempted from the rule are churches and anything tightly connected to a church, like say a program to feed folks run out of a church. Obviously.
They are being expected to follow the law of the land. That's all.

What right does the govt have gelling a private employer it has to enable the barbaric killing of human life. That is the real issue here.

Its not okay for eskimoes to club baby seals but it Okay for lefties and Obama to wipe out human beings?

The govt has no place forcing a group to provide abortifacients.

First they come for the Catholic Church, then they come for you.
How about forcing Church Hospitals to kill old people. Is that okay for you culture of death types. Oh its okay, its just removing them from medication?

 

[jem]

Quote from Free Thinker:

your supertious beliefs keeps people like you from coming to a sensible position that we can all agree to that would end the abortion debate.
i think most sensible people would agree that there should be no abortion beyond point of viability.
then you have the stupid catholics. they refuse to even allow contraception even though 98% of sexually active catholic women in the us ignore church dictates and use it.

You are just making a slippery slope distinction... If you want protection for totalitarian policies of a chavez in the future you have to stand up for the right to make personal judgments. Why is yours superior.

 

[jem]

Do you realize I am the liberal and you are the big govt commie/totalitarians.... this is happening more an more.

Where are the liberals who believe in freedom and the constitution?
do you remember when liberals were anti govt power?
why are you not afraid of a powerful central govt?
USSR, China, Eastern block... it was not that long ago.
are you all losing your minds?

We have the govt telling a church to provide drugs which kill and many of you commies are acting like that is the way it should be?

 

[Free Thinker]

Quote from jem:

Do you realize I am the liberal and you are the big govt commie/totalitarians.... this is happening more an more.

Where are the liberals who believe in freedom and the constitution?
do you remember when liberals were anti govt power?
why are you not afraid of a powerful central govt?
USSR, China, Eastern block... it was not that long ago.
are you all losing your minds?

We have the govt telling a church to provide drugs which kill and many of you commies are acting like that is the way it should be?

your freedom does not extend to your ability to violate the rights of others.
if fertilized eggs are human life then your god kills more humans every day than all other forms of manmade birth control.

 

[jem]

Quote from Free Thinker:

your freedom does not extend to your ability to violate the rights of others.
if fertilized eggs are human life then your god kills more humans every day than all other forms of manmade birth control.

when a leftist can't debate the point they change the subject.

you want to debate whether the govt should be protecting life from conception or viability... take it to another thread. that is a whole separate debate.

this is about us being protected from govt telling employers to provide drugs which kill human beings. Its a big difference and yet, apparently, too subtle for your intolerance and bigotry.

 

[trefoil]

The government is doing nothing more than telling a private employer to keep its hands off the private lives of its employees.
If you think a private employer has the right to dictate what its employees do at home, you're advocating a private dictatorship instead of a public one. Which isn't surprising, in the case of jem, since he doesn't even understand that statute law passed by Congress isn't going to be challenged by the USC in cases where it fills in and clarifies the meaning of the Constitution. Separation of powers and all that. In spirit, that's what this is all about too, in this case making sure that the private sphere of a citizen stays that way, including from the intrusions of a meddling employer. No one gets to have absolute power over another person, including that person's employer.

 

[futurecurrents]

Quote from trefoil:

The correct answer is that the Church is affiliated with - hospitals, nursing homes, etc. - but the services provided and the staff employed in these places does not have to be, although it may be, Catholic. They have no right, never had the right, and never will have the right to dictate to American citizens what they can do or not do based on Catholic doctrine just because those citizens are employed in places that are affiliated with the Church. What are they gonna do, tell a Hindu doctor he can't worship Ganesh? Obviously no.
The bishops can squeal all they want, it will get them where it's supposed to - nowhere.
Exempted from the rule are churches and anything tightly connected to a church, like say a program to feed folks run out of a church. Obviously.
They are being expected to follow the law of the land. That's all.

You know when you explain like that, it doesn't really sound like a war on religion after all. Damn you and your rational analysis. Takes all the fun out of the hysteria. Then again Catholics aren't very rational so luckily for them they can still be hysterical about this.

 

[nutmeg]

Quote from trefoil:

The correct answer is that the Church is affiliated with - hospitals, nursing homes, etc. - but the services provided and the staff employed in these places does not have to be, although it may be, Catholic. They have no right, never had the right, and never will have the right to dictate to American citizens what they can do or not do based on Catholic doctrine just because those citizens are employed in places that are affiliated with the Church.

Last year it was okay, this year it's not? Although your arguement makes sense, this was a non issue until Obamacare.

For the moment I do think this is strictly a religious debate and the Catholics were the target in this case for a good reason.

The Muslims are next.

When the Muslim owner of a cab company tells his employees to refuse to pick up gays, drunks and prostitutes, What's the Irish Catholic cab driver going to do? Refuse a fare?