The Election Autopsy

only a stalinist would argue with the idea of cutting taxes if the cuts result in increased revenue.

think about how insane you must be to argue against it.
why would you want to take away money from the people who earned it. if you were not a party loving (banker loving) stalinist.

seriously. if a tax cut still results in increased revenue... why not cut?


Bing, Bong BOINGggggg!

47ccf54325601ecae62960c4251588bf.jpg
 
seriously. if a tax cut still results in increased revenue... why not cut?

You now very well why. Since when did liberals understand economics or even care about it? With them it is more about resentment and envy. Let the government screw those rich bastards.
 
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I guess you didn't notice that revenues also increased after tax increases.:D
Did you know that the economy was in an intentionally induced recession when Reagan took office. Did you know that the great amount of Keynesian stimulus , i.e., domestic government spending, helped bring us out of recession? Do you know what happens to revenues when a nation is recovering from recession? :D (Don't bother to answer. I am not interested in your answer.)
Hah, I said you'd have to repeat all this even after your well-written essay on it!
:)
 
In Light of the Elections: Recession, Expansion, and Inequality
Olivier Blanchard (PIIE)

November 14, 2016 12:00 PM

"Will the economic program of President-elect Donald Trump lead to a recession or to an expansion? Before the election, many predicted a recession. But last week, markets clearly predicted an expansion.

"Who is right? It is obviously hard to tell. Announced programs are never implemented as such. Political realities and the need for support by Congress force minor and major adjustments. It is safe to assume that only those measures not too inconsistent with the views of Paul Ryan, Mitch McConnell, and their own constituencies will see the light of day.

"Under this assumption, what happens to the US economy depends mainly on the balance between macroeconomic and trade measures.

"On the macroeconomic front, signs point to larger fiscal deficits, as a result of both higher infrastructure spending and corporate and personal tax cuts. (Promises to finance infrastructure spending largely through private funds, and to find savings to offset the tax cuts, must be taken with the usual grain of salt). Tax cuts fit both the Trump agenda as well as the older agenda of supply-siders. The main limits to deficits might be the need to convince those Republicans who see debt as evil to vote for the spending and tax measures.

"If deficits take place, they will lead to higher spending and higher growth for some time. And with the US economy already operating close to potential, deficits will lead to higher inflation. If the current relation between inflation and unemployment (the so-called Phillips curve relation) holds, inflation may not increase very much, but it will increase, potentially leading the US Federal Reserve to react by increasing interest rates faster than it intended to before the election.

"Will the Fed indeed clamp down on demand and increase interest rates to prevent overheating? While Donald Trump the candidate criticized Fed Chair Janet Yellen for being too dovish, Donald Trump the President is likely to have a different view. Some of his advisers are however more genuinely hawkish, so the new appointments, now and in coming years, may move the Fed in a more hawkish direction. If so, the deficits will have less effect on output and more effect on interest rates.

"To the extent that both growth and interest rates are higher, the dollar is likely to appreciate, leading, ironically, to larger US trade deficits, which Donald Trump the candidate indicated he wanted to fight. This leads me to trade issues and trade measures.

"A major part of the pre-election program emphasized the use of tariffs to reduce imports and reestablish a "level playing field." Imposing tariffs on a major scale would decrease growth and make a recession more likely.

"The arguments are well known, but worth repeating. Tariffs by themselves may indeed reduce imports, increase the demand for domestic goods, and increase output (although, even then, as pointed out by Robert Mundell more than fifty years ago, the exchange rate may appreciate enough to lead to lower output in the end). But the "by themselves" assumption is just not right: Tariffs imposed by the United States would most likely lead to a tariff war and thus decrease exports. And the decrease in imports and exports would not be a wash. On the demand side, higher import prices would lead the Fed to increase interest rates further. On the supply side, and in my opinion more importantly, the tariffs would put into question global supply chains, disrupt production and trade, and decrease productivity. The effects might be hard to quantify, but they would be there.

"Given this, and presumably heavy lobbying by exporters, it is reasonable to think that the Trump administration will go slowly, starting with mainly symbolic measures as a sign of a longer commitment. But one cannot be sure, and things could quickly escalate. When Mexico is asked to pay for the border wall, it may react badly, leading to a tariff war. If and when China is labeled a currency manipulator, it may well react by imposing tariffs on some US goods. And, to return to macroeconomics, as fiscal deficits lead to larger trade deficits, the pressure to reduce them through more tariffs, as misdirected as that strategy is, will likely increase.

"So, in the end, expansion or recession will depend on the balance between macroeconomic and trade measures. My own guess is the first will dominate, and growth will be sustained, at least for some time. Will it be enough to satisfy those who voted for Donald Trump, worried about their incomes and their futures? I am not so sure. Growth will indeed lift most boats. But many measures will push in the opposite direction. Lower corporate taxes, lower personal taxes on the rich, and financial deregulation will increase the share of output going to capital (this probably explains in part what is happening to the stock market). The (now partial?) dismantling of Obamacare, if it is to happen, will not help the twenty or so million who benefit from it today. Tariffs on foreign goods may save some middle class jobs but will destroy others and increase the cost of living for those at the bottom end of the income distribution. Inequality may well go up, not down.

"Take these remarks for what they are, an early analysis of a still unknown set of measures, all with complex effects. Actual measures will differ, accidents will happen. But predictions of recession were too pessimistic. If macro measures dominate trade measures, we may be in for a Trump expansion, at least for a time.

Author's note: I thank my PIIE colleagues for very useful discussions."

https://piie.com/blogs/realtime-eco...-elections-recession-expansion-and-inequality
 
while we wait for piezoe to explain why he is against cutting taxes if it is followed by an increase in revenue....

I want to address the point ricter seems to be making...

Piezoe's argument is so basic its irrelevant.

You borrow a million and give to people... they will spend it. Some of that will be taxed... you will likely see an increase in revenue. No one here denies govt spending could lead to an increase in tax revenues. The question is... is it efficient. Some govt spending maybe efficient and lead to a higher net to the govt... the vast majority of our govt's spending does not pay for itself...



But... I did not here a peep out of either of you about this correlation. As tax rates go down govt revenues go up and there is a strong negative correlation between the two?

do you understand how hard this shuts down your implicit argument that tax cuts don't increase tax revenues.







http://www.forbes.com/sites/mikepat...uts-increase-government-revenue/#38c6303548a3

Federal-Revenue-Tax-Brackets5.png



There are two salient points here. First, as the graph illustrates, as tax rates declined, government revenue increased. Second, there is a strong negative correlation between the two. To review, correlation measures the relationship between two sets of data. The scale ranges from negative one to positive one. A correlation of positive one indicates that the two data sets move in concert with each other. A correlation of negative one indicates that as one set of data moves up, or down, the other moves in the opposite direction. Using the data from 1913 through the end of 2011, the correlation between the maximum marginal income tax bracket and total Federal receipts is a negative 0.50. In simple terms, when taxes are cut, Federal revenue has a very strong tendency to rise! And when taxes are raised, government revenue has a strong tendency to fall.

The next time you find yourself engaged in this debate and someone tells you that you that taxes must be raised to pay down the debt, you can refer them to this article. In conclusion, as JFK, Reagan, and George W. Bush understood, reducing taxes has a stimulative effect on economic activity which leads to an increase in government reciepts. You can’t argue with history!
 
In Light of the Elections: Recession, Expansion, and Inequality
Olivier Blanchard (PIIE)

November 14, 2016 12:00 PM

"Will the economic program of President-elect Donald Trump lead to a recession or to an expansion? Before the election, many predicted a recession. But last week, markets clearly predicted an expansion.

"Who is right? It is obviously hard to tell. Announced programs are never implemented as such. Political realities and the need for support by Congress force minor and major adjustments. It is safe to assume that only those measures not too inconsistent with the views of Paul Ryan, Mitch McConnell, and their own constituencies will see the light of day.

"Under this assumption, what happens to the US economy depends mainly on the balance between macroeconomic and trade measures.

"On the macroeconomic front, signs point to larger fiscal deficits, as a result of both higher infrastructure spending and corporate and personal tax cuts. (Promises to finance infrastructure spending largely through private funds, and to find savings to offset the tax cuts, must be taken with the usual grain of salt). Tax cuts fit both the Trump agenda as well as the older agenda of supply-siders. The main limits to deficits might be the need to convince those Republicans who see debt as evil to vote for the spending and tax measures.

"If deficits take place, they will lead to higher spending and higher growth for some time. And with the US economy already operating close to potential, deficits will lead to higher inflation. If the current relation between inflation and unemployment (the so-called Phillips curve relation) holds, inflation may not increase very much, but it will increase, potentially leading the US Federal Reserve to react by increasing interest rates faster than it intended to before the election.

"Will the Fed indeed clamp down on demand and increase interest rates to prevent overheating? While Donald Trump the candidate criticized Fed Chair Janet Yellen for being too dovish, Donald Trump the President is likely to have a different view. Some of his advisers are however more genuinely hawkish, so the new appointments, now and in coming years, may move the Fed in a more hawkish direction. If so, the deficits will have less effect on output and more effect on interest rates.

"To the extent that both growth and interest rates are higher, the dollar is likely to appreciate, leading, ironically, to larger US trade deficits, which Donald Trump the candidate indicated he wanted to fight. This leads me to trade issues and trade measures.

"A major part of the pre-election program emphasized the use of tariffs to reduce imports and reestablish a "level playing field." Imposing tariffs on a major scale would decrease growth and make a recession more likely.

"The arguments are well known, but worth repeating. Tariffs by themselves may indeed reduce imports, increase the demand for domestic goods, and increase output (although, even then, as pointed out by Robert Mundell more than fifty years ago, the exchange rate may appreciate enough to lead to lower output in the end). But the "by themselves" assumption is just not right: Tariffs imposed by the United States would most likely lead to a tariff war and thus decrease exports. And the decrease in imports and exports would not be a wash. On the demand side, higher import prices would lead the Fed to increase interest rates further. On the supply side, and in my opinion more importantly, the tariffs would put into question global supply chains, disrupt production and trade, and decrease productivity. The effects might be hard to quantify, but they would be there.

"Given this, and presumably heavy lobbying by exporters, it is reasonable to think that the Trump administration will go slowly, starting with mainly symbolic measures as a sign of a longer commitment. But one cannot be sure, and things could quickly escalate. When Mexico is asked to pay for the border wall, it may react badly, leading to a tariff war. If and when China is labeled a currency manipulator, it may well react by imposing tariffs on some US goods. And, to return to macroeconomics, as fiscal deficits lead to larger trade deficits, the pressure to reduce them through more tariffs, as misdirected as that strategy is, will likely increase.

"So, in the end, expansion or recession will depend on the balance between macroeconomic and trade measures. My own guess is the first will dominate, and growth will be sustained, at least for some time. Will it be enough to satisfy those who voted for Donald Trump, worried about their incomes and their futures? I am not so sure. Growth will indeed lift most boats. But many measures will push in the opposite direction. Lower corporate taxes, lower personal taxes on the rich, and financial deregulation will increase the share of output going to capital (this probably explains in part what is happening to the stock market). The (now partial?) dismantling of Obamacare, if it is to happen, will not help the twenty or so million who benefit from it today. Tariffs on foreign goods may save some middle class jobs but will destroy others and increase the cost of living for those at the bottom end of the income distribution. Inequality may well go up, not down.

"Take these remarks for what they are, an early analysis of a still unknown set of measures, all with complex effects. Actual measures will differ, accidents will happen. But predictions of recession were too pessimistic. If macro measures dominate trade measures, we may be in for a Trump expansion, at least for a time.

Author's note: I thank my PIIE colleagues for very useful discussions."

https://piie.com/blogs/realtime-eco...-elections-recession-expansion-and-inequality
Had I written my own detailed summary of what we should expect in terms of economic impact out of the new Trump administration, it would not differ one iota from this summary provided by Oliver Blanchard, who in my opinion is exceeded by no one in terms of understanding the balance of forces affecting a modern economy such as that of the United States. I would invite my trump enthusiast, 'libertarian', laissez faire 'free-, but anti-, trade,'* anti-immigrant, anarcho-antigovernment friends to read it and pay attention.

Let me add that Blanchard, always the diplomat, has toned down somewhat his mention of the economic dangers, e.g. widening inequality, inflation, retaliatory tariffs, deficits, and negative impact on those occupying the bottom rung of the economic ladder, that a Trump administration and greater supply-side economic initiatives presents. One can only hope that Trump was, indeed, lying about his plan for America -- which fortunately appears to be the case -- or alternatively, that the House and Senate will hold him in check.
____________________
*If this make no sense to you, it shouldn't!
 
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while we wait for piezoe to explain why he is against cutting taxes if it is followed by an increase in revenue....

I want to address the point ricter seems to be making...

Piezoe's argument is so basic its irrelevant.

You borrow a million and give to people... they will spend it. Some of that will be taxed... you will likely see an increase in revenue. No one here denies govt spending could lead to an increase in tax revenues. The question is... is it efficient. Some govt spending maybe efficient and lead to a higher net to the govt... the vast majority of our govt's spending does not pay for itself...



But... I did not here a peep out of either of you about this correlation. As tax rates go down govt revenues go up and there is a strong negative correlation between the two?

do you understand how hard this shuts down your implicit argument that tax cuts don't increase tax revenues.







http://www.forbes.com/sites/mikepat...uts-increase-government-revenue/#38c6303548a3

Federal-Revenue-Tax-Brackets5.png



There are two salient points here. First, as the graph illustrates, as tax rates declined, government revenue increased. Second, there is a strong negative correlation between the two. To review, correlation measures the relationship between two sets of data. The scale ranges from negative one to positive one. A correlation of positive one indicates that the two data sets move in concert with each other. A correlation of negative one indicates that as one set of data moves up, or down, the other moves in the opposite direction. Using the data from 1913 through the end of 2011, the correlation between the maximum marginal income tax bracket and total Federal receipts is a negative 0.50. In simple terms, when taxes are cut, Federal revenue has a very strong tendency to rise! And when taxes are raised, government revenue has a strong tendency to fall.

The next time you find yourself engaged in this debate and someone tells you that you that taxes must be raised to pay down the debt, you can refer them to this article. In conclusion, as JFK, Reagan, and George W. Bush understood, reducing taxes has a stimulative effect on economic activity which leads to an increase in government reciepts. You can’t argue with history!
You might care to explore the difference between Federal Tax Revenue and Federal Receipts. Or for that matter, even the difference between income tax revenue and tax revenue.
 
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why? you are suggesting that if I do the research I might find something interesting.. instead of doing the research yourself.

While researching I suggest you pull open an econ 101 textbook and turn to the section on the the fungibility of the dollar.

You might care to explore the difference between Federal Tax Revenue and Federal Receipts. Or for that matter, even the difference between income tax revenue and tax revenue.
 
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