The bitter truth about Patak Trading

Quote from gmst:

From the poll, its clear that still almost 50% of newbies think Patak is a good opportunity. A big reason for their thinking is because a very respected ET member who is amazing at creating illusions of reality using words, is defending Patak like a Shield.

So, this is the Bitter Truth about Maverick who is trying very very hard to convince everyone how wonderful this Patak operation is. Please read multiple Maverick's post on this linked thread from 2010 and you will know what were his real views when he was still a good guy.

http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=2985024#post2985024

A seasoned professional like Mav (Mav claims to have 15 yrs experience) does not change his views on an industry or the place where a firm belongs in the industry suddenly. The only thing that can cause such a polar change in the views of a seasoned professional like Maverick is MONEY. Money is such a bitch! It forces smart guys to get to the dark side. Now that we have proved that king has no clothes, all his blind followers - I hope you will read his posts with a more critical eye.

Maverick - Come back to the bright side!
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LOL. A blast from the past. This is the bomb? I have already stated on both of these threads that when Patak went live 2 years ago it was atrocious. I stated that on here already. And it was! They have made dramatic changes to the program that make it workable now. It was NOT back then.

Having said that, I never once on here said that TST is the end all be all. Back then I was comparing Patak's "horrible" model to "true" prop firms. I still contend that if one has the resume, they absolutely should go to a traditional prop firm, especially right out of school. Just take the money, shut up, listen and learn everything you can. Most guys here do NOT have the resume. So that leaves them two options. Fund their own account which I don't think most guys can do, or look for some alternative model. In this case, TST made enough improvements that I changed my mind as far as it even being doable. I felt it was impossible in 2010.

I once again fail to see the controversy here. Look if you were to ask if you should accept your offer from Goldman or give TST a try, I think I would tell you to go ahead and work with Goldman. LOL.

This business does change a lot. And when it changes, I modify my views. I do not think TST is on par with TMG, Chopper or Infinium and if any of you guys can get into their programs, do it!!!!

If you can get into Goldman or JP Morgan or Barclays...do it!!!!!

If you can get a job at a solid hedge fund...go for it!!!!!

But for the 99% here who can't, I honestly believe that TST will at least give you a chance to see if you even like trading. A lot guys will find out they don't. See if you have the aptitude for it. Forget about TST backing you. Just do the combines. Get your strategy down cold, get some self confidence and then fund your own account. Guys, this is not rocket science. This is the longest thread in the history of ET about nothing. It's like a bad Seinfeld episode.

Is there more to this or is that it?
 
Quote from gmst:

This is all I have. LOL. I am out of here. Keep promoting Patak.
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I'm not promoting anything. I'm simply not "attacking" anything. I prefer to discuss things like adults instead of throwing the word scam out everywhere. The funny thing is, I've actually spent very little time defending Patak on these threads. I've actually just been trying to give guys good overall direction on how to get started in trading. TST is one option. Getting an interview at TMG is another. Going back to school is yet another. There is not one "correct" path. There are many paths for many different circumstances. I wish you would understand that.
 
Quote from Maverick74:


But for the 99% here who can't, I honestly believe that TST will at least give you a chance to see if you even like trading. A lot guys will find out they don't. See if you have the aptitude for it. Forget about TST backing you. Just do the combines.
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So, that TST can earn 200-400$ per combine. LOL.

You sound like you are the Godfather here giving everyone the right advice. You are such a master with words. Amazing!

The 99% can test themselves out on Ninja simulator FOR FREE to see if they even have a chance to succeed at trading. They don't need TST.
This is what you posted on the thread I linked which directly contradicts above. Maverick - you will never accept that you are hand in gloves with Patak, but the silent majority on ET sees that. I must admit Patak found a good ET cheerleader in you though!

Quote from Maverick74:


What I said earlier is that the idea of running a simulator on 4 weeks of data is just not going to work. What would work is 3 years of data on a simulator.
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Mavrick, you write like a bucket shop owner.

Anyways, besides for the top step trader owner to be imo questionable, people should not aim for some slumpy prop shop and instead make it on their own or at a better firm.

Prop shops that offer more leverage are ok. (not a contract, even with "generous" profit cuts)
 
Quote from gmst:

So, that TST can earn 200-400$ per combine. LOL.

You sound like you are the Godfather here giving everyone the right advice. You are such a master with words. Amazing!

The 99% can test themselves out on Ninja simulator FOR FREE to see if they even have a chance to succeed at trading. They don't need TST.
This is what you posted on the thread I linked which directly contradicts above. Maverick - you will never accept that you are hand in gloves with Patak, but the silent majority on ET sees that. I must admit Patak found a good ET cheerleader in you though!
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Gmst, you keep repeating things I've already said on this very thread. No need to go back into the archives. I have already stated that if I did a combine, it would be MUCH longer. At least 6 months if not 12. The fact that they are willing to take a chance on you after 20 to 60 days is actually to your advantage, not theirs. I personally don't know why they do it but that's a good thing for you, not a bad thing.

At this point I don't really care what you think. My series 7 is held with Bright. Send him a PM and ask him. I have to disclose all my outside business activities to him.

I will take Michael up on that beer and I'll do some digging on my own. Whatever he doesn't answer here, I'll bring up. At this point gmst, you have dedicated your whole life to this cause which is amazing. If there is anyone to be suspicious of here, it's you. I think you are not being 100% up front with why you "really" are this upset. And don't even give me that good Samaritan crap.
 
Quote from Maverick74:

If there is anyone to be suspicious of here, it's you. I think you are not being 100% up front with why you "really" are this upset. And don't even give me that good Samaritan crap.
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I am upset at the way you guys are complicit in this scheme to scam newbies and still don't feel guilty about it. Frankly, I know I can do little to redeem the situation and its just a waste of my time. Newbies will keep getting fleeced from Patak and 100 Patak clones that will arise in due time. Really, there is nothing new under the sun.

Anyways, enjoy your stay here on this thread and other. I will sparingly comment from now onwards.
 
Quote from Maverick74:

They have made dramatic changes to the program that make it workable now.
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Like ?


Making it harder to pass the combine ?


Raising the lowest combine entry from free to $160 ?
 
Quote from Maverick74:

If you don't train newbies on volatility then they will come to fear it once it's in front of them. Pure and simple.
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I have witnessed some of the better traders burn up when they got in front of volatility, and really never found any old traders who are consistent day in and day out that traded volatility either. The drawdowns are obscene as the slippage increases. I have no fear of anything, but 34 years of trading/backtesting/studying show me to step aside, you can't be sliding in 300 contracts into any market, including Eurodollar when volatile and not expect huge slippage.

We all have opinions/experiences, but I think newbies should fear volatile time periods, as they have not established rules of what to do when it happens. You can train all day long on what they should do, but actually real time trades can wipe out a weeks work even with training.

What I find fun, is on days when ES has a range of six points, all the trend traders lose, I do well, when it trends, I do well. And CL has tight days as well. ES teaches how to make a very consistent pattern based living once you get the hang of it, it can swallow up a few thousand contracts in early and late sessions, slippage is min. CL on other hand if on wrong side, one can experience $500-800 of slip per contract as my worst. I really believe Nasdaq best contract to learn on, after they get a good grasp, them more to CL.

One day CL will be just like the T-Bills, Pork Bellies, run and gun markets fades and there will be a new one to take their place.
 
handle123

my sentiments exactly . cl is a risky proposition for any new trader

trading the es or nq are the smart choices to consider

then again some traders like to gamble , to each his own
 
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