Disagree. CL is much easier to trade then ES. ES is a churn and burn machine. CL is hard for "undercapitlaized" guys to trade. That I agree with. Which is precisely why I am recommending it here since capital is not an issue. If you are just starting out right now and have never traded a contract in your life, I absolutely positively would not tell anyone to trade ES. Never been have I see a contract where guys develop so many bad trading habits. Start with CL. You are not risking your money, go for it!
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The bitter truth about Patak Trading
- Thread starter gmst
- Start date
Disagree. CL is much easier to trade then ES. ES is a churn and burn machine. CL is hard for "undercapitlaized" guys to trade. That I agree with. Which is precisely why I am recommending it here since capital is not an issue. If you are just starting out right now and have never traded a contract in your life, I absolutely positively would not tell anyone to trade ES. Never been have I see a contract where guys develop so many bad trading habits. Start with CL. You are not risking your money, go for it!
the cl contract is too volitale , cuts both ways . so based on that most people would discourage a new person from trading it
I am surprised you don't like the es & encourage especially
a new trader to trade the cl
you have a different view on this vs most traders
It's all personal choice , but nothing wrong with trading the NQ
if someone is trading real money , they may blow up
then again everyone has a different risk tolerance
and you won't know unless you try it
I am surprised you don't like the es & encourage especially
a new trader to trade the cl
you have a different view on this vs most traders
It's all personal choice , but nothing wrong with trading the NQ
if someone is trading real money , they may blow up
then again everyone has a different risk tolerance
and you won't know unless you try it
Quote from hitnrun:
the cl contract is too volitale , cuts both ways . so based on that most people would discourage a new person from trading it
I am surprised you don't like the es & encourage especially
a new trader to trade the cl
you have a different view on this vs most traders
It's all personal choice , but nothing wrong with trading the NQ
if someone is trading real money , they may blow up
then again everyone has a different risk tolerance
and you won't know unless you try it
Trust me on this. If a guy is starting his journey today he should not trade index products. They force a trader to develop bad habits and it's precisely the reason why you say it's too volatile. Because you are coming from the perspective of a slow index product. A new trader does not know yet what a slow or volatile product is. He should learn and develop his skill set on something that moves.
And again, CL only looks volatile next to the ES. If I had you learn to trade nat gas and then moved you to CL, you would tell me CL is too slow and quiet. It's all relative.
BTW, this is precisely what TST is good for. Learning to trade a new product that you might be "afraid" of without risking your own capital.
BTW, I take it you never traded in the late 90's. Now THAT was volatility. That market made millionaires out of beginner traders. We as traders get "paid" on volatility. Don't run from it, embrace it.
The bad news is, if you already are accustomed to trading index futures, then I agree with you, CL will eat you alive and always will. Which is why a newbie should never poison himself with that product to begin with.
Quote from Maverick74:
Disagree. CL is much easier to trade then ES. ES is a churn and burn machine. CL is hard for "undercapitlaized" guys to trade. That I agree with. Which is precisely why I am recommending it here since capital is not an issue. If you are just starting out right now and have never traded a contract in your life, I absolutely positively would not tell anyone to trade ES. Never been have I see a contract where guys develop so many bad trading habits. Start with CL. You are not risking your money, go for it!
Maverick74: you have been on this website longer than I have, so I have lots of respect for you. However I cannot help but say you sound like a terrible used car sales man. Not just with this post, but over 1/2 of your posts in these Patak threads. When you are not talking about Patak, you do not sound very smart or as a good trader, which probably is not true. "ES is a churn and burn machine" is this a joke somehow?
Serious question: have you ever made any money with CL?
been around the block for many years , seen it all
anyone that traded indexes back in 2008 & 2009 Insane volitility
if you can handle that & make money .. your good
my point is new people need to develop good habits & trading
a whippy contract is not a smart move to me
I am talking about trading real money , not this sim bullshit where everyone can make money . it's two different worlds
anyone that traded indexes back in 2008 & 2009 Insane volitility
if you can handle that & make money .. your good
my point is new people need to develop good habits & trading
a whippy contract is not a smart move to me
I am talking about trading real money , not this sim bullshit where everyone can make money . it's two different worlds
Quote from SUPERIOR1:
Maverick74: you have been on this website longer than I have, so I have lots of respect for you. However I cannot help but say you sound like a terrible used car sales man. Not just with this post, but over 1/2 of your posts in these Patak threads. When you are not talking about Patak, you do not sound very smart or as a good trader, which probably is not true. "ES is a churn and burn machine" is this a joke somehow?
Serious question: have you ever made any money with CL?
I have. Are you in Chicago? I sound better in person. I've been trading for 15 years, both on and off the floor. I've worked for 4 prop firms in both Chicago and NY and worked for the 2nd largest market making firm in options in the country. Please save the ad hominem for another thread. If you want to chat with me, I'm in Chicago.
Quote from hitnrun:
been around the block for many years , seen it all
anyone that traded indexes back in 2008 & 2009 Insane volitility
if you can handle that & make money .. your good
my point is new people need to develop good habits & trading
a whippy contract may is not a smart move to me
i am talking about trading real money , not this sim bullshit where everyone can make money using , two different worlds
If you don't train newbies on volatility then they will come to fear it once it's in front of them. Pure and simple.
there is no volitility in the past year , we need some
everyone like's something different , good to have choices
i know you traded different instruments in the past & now your back to stocks again
Have you spent much time trading the cl contract ?
What is your view on trading the mini russell TF contract ?
everyone like's something different , good to have choices
i know you traded different instruments in the past & now your back to stocks again
Have you spent much time trading the cl contract ?
What is your view on trading the mini russell TF contract ?
Quote from hitnrun:
there is no volitility in the past year , we need some
everyone like's something different , good to have choices
What is your view on trading the mini russell TF contract ?
Obviously the best of the index family.
BTW, if I can further expand on this. One of the reasons why the ES is so tough is because of all the derivatives attached to it. You have the e-mini and the large SP which trades in the pit still. You have the SPY shares. You have options on SPY, options on e-minis and options on SPX. Then you have the OEX and XEO options. Then you have the 2x and 3 x products as well as the short ETF products. All these products are trading at the same time in different directions. It's like trying to drive in rush hour traffic in LA. Too many cars going in every which direction. It makes it very hard to read price action. Ideally you trade something that has the least amount of peripheral derivatives around it to lesson the noise.
One of the things that does make the Russell better is it does seem to have the least amount of related products and option activity. It does have the RUT and IWM options but they pale compared to all the spy derivatives.
agree with you on that . there is a lot going on with the es
most traders would say they rather trade the TF for volitility
the TF is one contract you can make money with if your good
always good to get other views of what someone likes to trade
What other contracts do you like overall ?
most traders would say they rather trade the TF for volitility
the TF is one contract you can make money with if your good
always good to get other views of what someone likes to trade
What other contracts do you like overall ?