The Argument Against Creation

exGOPer

exGOPer

"We [as humans] can decide to do something, we can wait for a certain time before acting, we can wonder about our future actions; but such possibilities cannot arise for [an eternal, omnipotent, omnipresent] God. In his case there is no gap between desire and action, nothing stands in the way of his activity; and yet we are told by al-Ghazali that God suddenly created the world. What differentiates one time from another for God? What could motivate him to create the world at one particular time as opposed to another? For us, different times are different because they have different qualitative aspects, yet before the creation of the world, when there was nothing around to characterize one time as distinct from another, there is nothing to characterize one time over another as the time for creation to take place."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Averroes#cite_note-muslim_encyclopedia-63
 
exGOPer said:
"We [as humans] can decide to do something, we can wait for a certain time before acting, we can wonder about our future actions; but such possibilities cannot arise for [an eternal, omnipotent, omnipresent] God. In his case there is no gap between desire and action, nothing stands in the way of his activity; and yet we are told by al-Ghazali that God suddenly created the world. What differentiates one time from another for God? What could motivate him to create the world at one particular time as opposed to another? For us, different times are different because they have different qualitative aspects, yet before the creation of the world, when there was nothing around to characterize one time as distinct from another, there is nothing to characterize one time over another as the time for creation to take place."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Averroes#cite_note-muslim_encyclopedia-63
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wtf...:D?
So how 'bout those Eagles?
You pop your head up and this is what you got?
Get back down to the ET basement already.
 
"The Argument Against Creation "

God created and maintains everything. There is no argument at all.

God knows the answer, of course. But nobody knows or understands how and why about everything including creation. Why would we think we should be able to know and understand everything?

God is everything - including everything we know, we don't know yet (e.g. ET), and we can never know; everything we see, we can't see yet (e.g. dark energy/matter), and we can never see; everything we understand, we don't understand yet (e.g. avoiding wars), and we can never understand, etc, etc.

Everything also includes what we call Creation, which is just one of God's mysteries!

We shouldn't waste our time/ energy in certain things, as we should be doing so many other more meaningful and productive things.

Some people including asylums are still homeless! That is the kind of practical issues people should spend time and energy in with priority.

lol


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infinity

Cosmology

The first published proposal that the universe is infinite came from Thomas Digges in 1576.[29] Eight years later, in 1584, the Italian philosopher and astronomer Giordano Bruno proposed an unbounded universe in On the Infinite Universe and Worlds: "Innumerable suns exist; innumerable earths revolve around these suns in a manner similar to the way the seven planets revolve around our sun. Living beings inhabit these worlds."[30]

Cosmologists have long sought to discover whether infinity exists in our physical universe: Are there an infinite number of stars? Does the universe have infinite volume? Does space "go on forever"? This is an open question of cosmology. The question of being infinite is logically separate from the question of having boundaries. The two-dimensional surface of the Earth, for example, is finite, yet has no edge. By travelling in a straight line with respect to the Earth's curvature one will eventually return to the exact spot one started from. The universe, at least in principle, might have a similar topology. If so, one might eventually return to one's starting point after travelling in a straight line through the universe for long enough.[31]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infinitesimal

In mathematics, infinitesimals are things so small that there is no way to measure them. The insight with exploiting infinitesimals was that entities could still retain certain specific properties, such as angle or slope, even though these entities were quantitatively small.[1]
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N%C3%BAmeros_hiperreales.png
 
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OddTrader said:
"The Argument Against Creation "

God created and maintains everything. There is no argument at all.

God knows the answer, of course. But nobody knows or understands how and why about everything including creation. Why would we think we should be able to know and understand everything?

God is everything - including everything we know, we don't know yet (e.g. ET), and we can never know; everything we see, we can't see yet (e.g. dark energy/matter), and we can never see; everything we understand, we don't understand yet (e.g. avoiding wars), and we can never understand, etc, etc.

Everything also includes what we call Creation, which is just one of God's mysteries!

We shouldn't waste our time/ energy in certain things, as we should be doing so many other more meaningful and productive things.

Some people including asylums are still homeless! That is the kind of practical issues people should spend time and energy in with priority.

lol




N%C3%BAmeros_hiperreales.png
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PS: If an ant says God makes ants in God's image, a tree would think that saying is a good humour. And an ET is just confused!
 
your note states

"This is not to say that Ibn Rushd denied the Creation; rather, he proposed an eternal creation. Oliver Leaman explains Ibn Rushd's argument as such:"

conventional science states our universe had a beginning and time began after the big bang.
that there was a big bang was pretty much confirmed by the finding of background radiation showing what the early universe was like.

For scientists "before" the big bang is an unknown. Our science does not go back that far. At the moment our science began just after the big bang.

exGOPer said:
"We [as humans] can decide to do something, we can wait for a certain time before acting, we can wonder about our future actions; but such possibilities cannot arise for [an eternal, omnipotent, omnipresent] God. In his case there is no gap between desire and action, nothing stands in the way of his activity; and yet we are told by al-Ghazali that God suddenly created the world. What differentiates one time from another for God? What could motivate him to create the world at one particular time as opposed to another? For us, different times are different because they have different qualitative aspects, yet before the creation of the world, when there was nothing around to characterize one time as distinct from another, there is nothing to characterize one time over another as the time for creation to take place."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Averroes#cite_note-muslim_encyclopedia-63
More...
 
exGOPer said:
and yet we are told by al-Ghazali that God suddenly created the world. What differentiates one time from another for God? What could motivate him to create the world at one particular time as opposed to another?
More...

Without existence, nothing , including creation, or God, can exist.
It is because existence exists, creation exists. The all powerful God doesn't exist as it needs existence as predicate to exist before it can.
:)
 


https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/space/universe/origins-of-the-universe/


Origins of the Theory

A Belgian priest named Georges Lemaître first suggested the big bang theory in the 1920s when he theorized that the universe began from a single primordial atom. The idea subsequently received major boosts by Edwin Hubble's observations that galaxies are speeding away from us in all directions, and from the discovery of cosmic microwave radiation by Arno Penzias and Robert Wilson.

The glow of cosmic microwave background radiation, which is found throughout the universe, is thought to be a tangible remnant of leftover light from the big bang. The radiation is akin to that used to transmit TV signals via antennas. But it is the oldest radiation known and may hold many secrets about the universe's earliest moments.

The big bang theory leaves several major questions unanswered. One is the original cause of the big bang itself. Several answers have been proposed to address this fundamental question, but none has been proven—and even adequately testing them has proven to be a formidable challenge.
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Alternatives to the Big Bang Theory Explained (Infographic)
By Karl Tate, Infographics Artist | February 21, 2014

https://www.space.com/24781-big-bang-theory-alternatives-infographic.html

One alternative theory is the Steady State universe. An early rival to the Big Bang theory, Steady State posits continuous creation of matter throughout the universe to explain its apparent expansion. This type of universe would be infinite, with no beginning or end. However, a mountain of evidence found since the mid-1960s indicates that this theory is not correct.

Another alternative is the Eternal Inflation theory. After the Big Bang, the universe expanded rapidly during a brief period called inflation. The Eternal Inflation theory posits that inflation never stopped, and has been going on for an infinite length of time. Somewhere, even now, new universes are coming into existence in a vast complex called the multiverse. Those many universes could have different physical laws.

The Oscillating model of the universe involved an endless series of Big Bangs, followed by Big Crunches that restarted the cycle, endlessly. The modern cyclic model involves colliding "branes" (a "membrane" within a higher-dimensional volume called the "bulk").

Implications found in quantum gravity and string theory tantalizingly suggest a universe that is in reality nothing like how it appears to human observers. It may actually be a flat hologram projected onto the surface of a sphere, for example. Or it could be a completely digital simulation running in a vast computer.
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* Top Alternate Universe Theories | Futurism
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13 Aug 2017 ... So, mathematically and quantum-wise, it could be one of the most likely theories to explain alternate worlds. So, if you arrived at school on time in one universe, the many-worlds interpretation suggests that there is another version of you out there who would show up to school late. There are as many worlds ...

* 7 Theories on the Origin of Life - Live Science
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* No Big Bang? Quantum equation predicts universe has no beginning
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stu said:
Without existence, nothing , including creation, or God, can exist.
It is because existence exists, creation exists. The all powerful God doesn't exist as it needs existence as predicate to exist before it can.
:)
More...

Without existence, who would be there to perceive reality or question this existence. So the only epistemic belief one can have is that they exist, everything else is as Kant said, as it appears to us rather than the reality.

But then the question is, it appears to who, who is the perceiver and how is a distinct perceiver comes into being.The problem of first cause is unsolvable.
 
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