The American educational system is a disaster, so the rich turn to the best

Quote from drownpruf:

Right, they want to see the Grand Canyon. C'mon, you're entirely talking out of your ass. We have the greatest % of foreign students of any country.
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Those were literally the words out of the kid's mouth. I'm just saying America has always had more to offer than other areas in the world. It's not as simple as the pedigree.

Don't get me wrong. We do have excellent world-class private-schools. The public education system is another story. It is infested with special-interest groups and isn't fair to compare a system with 100 million students to a small European country that has only a few million students in school. Especially considering the small populations have somewhat more control over their governments.
 
Quote from drownpruf:

Right, they want to see the Grand Canyon. C'mon, you're entirely talking out of your ass. We have the greatest % of foreign students of any country.
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I agree that we have the most foreign students of any country. Doesn't mean anything to me. That argument is old.

Go ask any German, French, Swiss foreign exchange student, they absolutely laugh at our college work. I've been around enough european exchange students to know what I'm talking about.
 
Quote from EvOTraderV2:

It is infested with special-interest groups...
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Corporations suck greedily from the teats of government and somehow manage to remove the teats from their mouths long enough to complain about Big Government any time their milk supply is threatened.

I'm a volunteer tutor and the schools have become a massive profit feedlot for textbook publishers, educational testing services, processed food manufacturers/restaurants, technology companies, pharmaceutical companies, toy companies, social network companies, etc.

The schools I've worked in have succeeded beautifully at creating reliable pools of ADD/ADHD consumers.
 
Quote from EvOTraderV2:

Those were literally the words out of the kid's mouth. I'm just saying America has always had more to offer than other areas in the world. It's not as simple as the pedigree.

Don't get me wrong. We do have excellent world-class private-schools. The public education system is another story. It is infested with special-interest groups and isn't fair to compare a system with 100 million students to a small European country that has only a few million students in school. Especially considering the small populations have somewhat more control over their governments.
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Wow, compelling sample of one.

We have more to offer alludes that the rest of the World offers less.
 
Quote from drownpruf:

Wow, compelling sample of one.

We have more to offer alludes that the rest of the World offers less.
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Agree with you. If you want to make big money, connections that are made at big schools will most likely lead to a bigger payday then people can get in other countries. Lets make sure not to mix up that it is only the connections that lead to bigger and better thing, not the actual course work itself.

However the argument here is towards the public highschool/middle school education and how that part of our education completely sucks. Even though it carries on to the mid level state universities as well. Some of the bigger states schools have harder course work., but not as hard as a business school in Europe in my opinion.
 
Quote from drownpruf:

Nature vs. nurture? It's a cop-out. Most parents do what they can with what they have. It's the demographic of where I am, but I don't know any degens with kids. Maybe they're drunk every night but they're high-functioning if so.

I have a kid with a 200IQ who's ADHD. He can do linear equations out to the margins at 10yo but refuses to do any homework. He should be in HS if not for the lack of EQ. Nearly perfect eidetic memory. I have another child who's 120-130 tested and is the most diligent student you can imagine. Sits at the dining room table each night banging out the homework and extra credit. Will never grade the grades of his younger brother.
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My son got a perfect math fcat score, but takes 30 minutes to take out his homework from his book bag.
 
"...However, it is in the highest degree improbable that the reforms I propose will ever be carried into effect. Neither the parents, nor the training colleges, nor the examination boards, nor the boards of governors, nor the ministries of education, would countenance them for a moment. For they amount to this: that if we are to produce a society of educated people, fitted to preserve their intellectual freedom amid the complex pressures of our modern society, we must turn back the wheel of progress some four or five hundred years, to the point at which education began to lose sight of its true object, towards the end of the Middle Ages...."


http://www.gbt.org/text/sayers.html

I agree 100% [except in the sciences]. However, I would do things slightly differently, but definitely with a classical education bias. One day soon I will post what I think a modern version of a classical education should look like. One thing is for certain, it is not what is taught in schools.

Neil Postman brings sayers up to date:

<iframe src="//player.vimeo.com/video/19897055" width="500" height="363" frameborder="0" webkitallowfullscreen mozallowfullscreen allowfullscreen></iframe> <p><a href="http://vimeo.com/19897055">Neil Postman on "Informing Ourselves to Death"</a> from <a href="http://vimeo.com/peterkfallon">Dr Fallon</a> on <a href="https://vimeo.com">Vimeo</a>.</p>

http://w2.eff.org/Net_culture/Criticisms/informing_ourselves_to_death.paper
 
Quote from Scataphagos:

Geez. I tutored chemistry in college for about $20/hr.

What was I thinking?
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In college? Probably not a whole lot, despite the underlying intent and premise! :D

In life, thinking kills. It's the watching and doing that gets you where you want to go/be...

God, I've got to get that Home Depot commercial out of my head..
 
Quote from Scataphagos:

Students get out of school what they put into it. Teachers can't "pound knowledge into kids' heads".

I like the "Asian way". Kids get tested to find out which have academic ability. Those kids are promoted to better educations. Others are left to learn about cleaning houses, being janitors, etc. Don't want to be one of the "others"? Better apply yourself to math, English, science.

Should be the same in America.
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There's something to be said for the idea that people have different learning styles - seeing, hearing, writing, doing...

This is a variation of the one-size-fits-all approach, utilized because it's easier for the school system, not for the students...

In addition to your idea, we need to consider the best way to reach a particular student. Otherwise, they'll continue to uninterested/uninspired/unmotivated because they just don't get it with that particular learning style. And we can't completely blame the kids because they really don't understand much of anything nor possess any real sense of self-awareness.

The other big issue in today's schools is the overwhelming focus on classroom control. Which is ironic, because it's the education system that's decidedly anti-discipline. Parents are not allowed to discipline in an effective manner without running afoul of moral norms/recently enacted legal statutes. So what happens - undisciplined kids show up in the classrooms, disrupting the learning process. And the schools complain parents aren't doing their jobs. It's a vicious circle.

You give to get. Not the other way around.

Give discipline, get disciplined kids.
Do not give discipline, get wild, unruly, disruptive kids.
 
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