Texas vs. California

sfbayarea · Mar 21, 2012

Quote from 377OHMS:

You are an idiot. California left itself open to be exploited.

The Enron energy traders did not go to jail. They are in Chicago right now working for a well-known hedge fund.

Ken Lay and Jeff Skilling went to jail for dumping their stock when they were telling shareholders there was nothing wrong with the company. Securities fraud. Look it up dumbass.

The same energy traders are doing the same thing and if California is ever so foolish as to deregulate its electricity market the same thing will happen again. Perfectly legal. Talk to Gray Davis you fucking moronic liberal propagandist.

Although some things people do are not illegal, doesn't mean they are morally right. Duh. Under a deregulated market with no rules, of course people do whatever they can at the expense of the public. That is what is wrong. That's the problem today. Too many greed selfish people doing things to the detriment of the public. Don't take things for granted. Wait until you get in a car wreck that leaves you paralyzed that you have to beg for other people to help you. See how selfish, you can be then. LOL

Do you honestly think that it's the right thing to do? Intentionally cause blackouts to make money?

I didn't say Skilling went to prison for energy manipulation. More so the unethical practices of his traders in screwing the public over goes along with his corrupt issues that got him in prison. You don't get the analogy here. Just because Al Capone went to prison for tax evasion doesn't mean that he stuff he was not found guilty of, he didn't do or weren't unethical about.

Talk to Rupert Murdoch you fucking moronic GOPper propagandist. Go peddle his tabloids why don't you?

377OHMS · Mar 21, 2012

Quote from sfbayarea:

Although some things people do are not illegal, doesn't mean they are morally right. Duh. Under a deregulated market with no rules, of course people do whatever they can at the expense of the public. That is what is wrong.

Do you honestly think that it's the right thing to do? Intentionally cause blackouts to make money?

I didn't say Skilling went to prison for energy manipulation. More so the unethical practices of his traders in screwing the public over goes along with his corrupt issues that got him in prison. You don't get the analogy here. Just because Al Capone went to prison for tax evasion doesn't mean that he stuff he was not found guilty of, he didn't do or weren't unethical about.

Talk to Rupert Murdoch you fucking moronic GOPper propagandist. Go peddle his tabloids why don't you?

I didn't say it was morally right, I said it was legal.

I was working at that large hedge fund in chicago when we sent people down to Houston to hire the Enron energy traders. I myself left the business because I didn't like sitting around fleecing teachers pension funds and similar legal but immoral transactions. I went back to engineering.

I was just trying to point out the Jeff Skilling is not sitting in jail for manipulating the California electricity market. I saw the movie "The Smartest Guys in the Room" and heard those audio tapes of those traders calling generating stations and getting them to go offline so that they could charge outrageous rates for electricity. I didn't like it either. But I personally think that your use of that anecdote to run down Texas is misguided. Enron was an anomaly in Texas, their culture was not representative of Texas culture (if there is such a thing lol).

You're just being silly about Murdoch and its making you appear stupid. Just sayin'.

Eight · Mar 21, 2012

Quote from sfbayarea:

That was one of the most misleading messages here. It says nothing about what ENRON did. You just complained about price fixes. All you said was socialist this or that. Just a long winded blah. CA doesn't have their own power plants. It's not socialist where CA government owns the power industry.

YOU OBVIOUSLY LEFT OUT THE PART ABOUT ENRON PURPOSELY CAUSING ROLLING BLACKOUTS TO DRIVE UP PRICES UNDER DEREGULATION. ENRON BOUGHT POWER COMPANIES AND THEY TOLD THE COMPANIES TO TURN OFF THE POWER TO CAUSE PRICES TO SPIKE. IF THAT IS NOT CORRUPT, I DON'T KNOW WHAT IS.

ENRON INTENTIONALLY CAUSED BLACKOUTS. THERE'S TAPES OF ENRON TRADERS CALLING TO TELL PEOPLE AT THE POWER STATIONS TO TURN THEM OFF!!!

Funny all these problems occurred after deregulation. Why do you think CA never had rolling blackouts before and after ENRON? LOL

Do you work for Rupert Murdoch because your tactics are similar? Give long speaches and leave out facts so that some gullible people will believe you.

That moron, Gray Davis, left his state open to getting rolled by energy traders!! He was going to court to break all the energy deals because he signed under duress!! What leadership from the Left!! He was under duress so the deals should be broken? I still can't believe we elect people that are that fu%^ed up... California didn't build any power plants at all while ten million people moved into the state too... so he FIXED PRICES.. price fixing has not worked in all it's 2500 year history, there is not a single instance that you can point to that demonstrates that it worked, but Gray Davis tried it anyhow [so did Richard Nixon, there is another example of how successful someone can be in politics and what horribly lame leaders they actually are]

sfbayarea · Mar 21, 2012

Quote from 377OHMS:

I didn't say it was morally right, I said it was legal.

I was working at that large hedge fund in chicago when we sent people down to Houston to hire the Enron energy traders. I myself left the business because I didn't like sitting around fleecing teachers pension funds and similar legal but immoral transactions. I went back to engineering.

I was just trying to point out the Jeff Skilling is not sitting in jail for manipulating the California electricity market. I saw the movie "The Smartest Guys in the Room" and heard those audio tapes of those traders calling generating stations and getting them to go offline so that they could charge outrageous rates for electricity. I didn't like it either. But I personally think that your use of that anecdote to run down Texas is misguided. Enron was an anomaly in Texas, their culture was not representative of Texas culture (if there is such a thing lol).

You're just being silly about Murdoch and its making you appear stupid. Just sayin'.

Finally the most reasonable quote by you yet here. I never said Skilling went to prison for energy manipulation. Under deregulation without rules, people could do whatever they want at the expense of others.

Never said everyone in Texas are like people working for ENRON. Just pointing out that the top heads at ENRON were in deep with Texas politics and that company costed CA billions. Nothing to do with average Joe Worker that lives in Texas. They were GOPs BTW. This is a CA vs. TX thread. Just as people complain about taxes here, there's negatives that came out of TX that affected CA. Bush Jr. too. You GOPs can thank him for getting Obama elected. Funny how no one asks him who he endorses. Obviously because he screwed it up bad that no one wants his opinion. Funny thing is that I thought Jeb Bush would've been a better president than Bush Jr. Jeb was much more of a moderate.

As far as Murdoch goes, there's nothing silly there. Another corrupt power hungry guy that goes too far. Doing things to make money at the detriment and expense of the public is just wrong.

pspr · Mar 21, 2012

Let me give you a rebuttal to you post below....

You're An Idiot! Go crawl back under your rock.

'nuff said.

Quote from sfbayarea:

Finally the most reasonable quote by you yet here. I never said Skilling went to prison for energy manipulation. Under deregulation without rules, people could do whatever they want at the expense of others.

Never said everyone in Texas are like people working for ENRON. Just pointing out that the top heads at ENRON were in deep with Texas politics and that company costed CA billions. Nothing to do with average Joe Worker that lives in Texas. They were GOPs BTW. This is a CA vs. TX thread. Just as people complain about taxes here, there's negatives that came out of TX that affected CA. Bush Jr. too. You GOPs can thank him for getting Obama elected. Funny how no one asks him who he endorses. Obviously because he screwed it up bad that no one wants his opinion. Funny thing is that I thought Jeb Bush would've been a better president than Bush Jr. Jeb was much more of a moderate.

As far as Murdoch goes, there's nothing silly there. Another corrupt power hungry guy that goes too far. Doing things to make money at the detriment and expense of the public is just wrong.

377OHMS · Mar 21, 2012

Quote from sfbayarea:

Finally the most reasonable quote by you yet here. I never said Skilling went to prison for energy manipulation. Under deregulation without rules, people could do whatever they want at the expense of others.

Never said everyone in Texas are like people working for ENRON. Just pointing out that the top heads at ENRON were in deep with Texas politics and that company costed CA billions. Nothing to do with average Joe Worker that lives in Texas. They were GOPs BTW. This is a CA vs. TX thread. Just as people complain about taxes here, there's negatives that came out of TX that affected CA. Bush Jr. too. You GOPs can thank him for getting Obama elected. Funny how no one asks him who he endorses. Obviously because he screwed it up bad that no one wants his opinion. Funny thing is that I thought Jeb Bush would've been a better president than Bush Jr. Jeb was much more of a moderate.

As far as Murdoch goes, there's nothing silly there. Another corrupt power hungry guy that goes too far. Doing things to make money at the detriment and expense of the public is just wrong.

The Murdoch thing *is* silly because I don't read his newpapers or watch his television stations. My main sources of news are NPR (leftist public radio) and Drudge (Matt doesn't write a word of it, he just collects links to news stories written elsewhere). If I'm not a consumer of Murdoch's products then how can I be a Murdoch lackey?

sfbayarea · Mar 21, 2012

Quote from Eight:

That moron, Gray Davis, left his state open to getting rolled by energy traders!! He was going to court to break all the energy deals because he signed under duress!! What leadership from the Left!! He was under duress so the deals should be broken? I still can't believe we elect people that are that fu%^ed up... California didn't build any power plants at all while ten million people moved into the state too... so he FIXED PRICES.. price fixing has not worked in all it's 2500 year history, there is not a single instance that you can point to that demonstrates that it worked, but Gray Davis tried it anyhow [so did Richard Nixon, there is another example of how successful someone can be in politics and what horribly lame leaders they actually are]

Who was it that were the proponents of deregulation? You saw the problem with deregulation where people did whatever they can and get away with it. If it was Gray Davis' fault for deregulating, then it's his fault. Deregulation without rules is just bad. I also blame Clinton for signing NAFTA. They had no clue what they signed and thought it probably sounded like a good idea at the time. The power system was working fine in CA before the deregulation and ENRON stepping in. Davis was probably too naive to think that the likes of ENRON would take advantage of it.

As far as price fixing goes, in Japan, there are price fixes on their health care system. The citizens of Japan like it. It doesn't cost an arm and a leg for products like here. The doctors don't make as much there as compared to here. But if the majority of the public is fine with it, who cares. If they want more money, they can work in some other profession. I'm interested in benefits to the society as a whole, not a few people at the top making money.

sfbayarea · Mar 21, 2012

Quote from 377OHMS:

The Murdoch thing *is* silly because I don't read his newpapers or watch his television stations. My main sources of news are NPR (leftist public radio) and Drudge (Matt doesn't write a word of it, he just collects links to news stories written elsewhere). If I'm not a consumer of Murdoch's products then how can I be a Murdoch lackey?

Why are you a GOP listening to NPR? You don't watch Faux News? Ranting about socialists and liberals is stuff Faux News does. If you are actually telling the truth in this quote, you'd love Murdoch television.

It's not a silly matter about Murdoch. Deep corruption in the UK involving Murdoch's tabloid paper. His son had recently resigned. People were arrested. I suppose if it was up to you, you'd let them all go free. Of course, they don't like mentioning it on Faux News.

Actually I've listened to NPR before. Some of the segments, I don't like. Way too liberal for me.

sfbayarea · Mar 23, 2012

Quote from pspr:

Let me give you a rebuttal to you post below....

You're An Idiot! Go crawl back under your rock.

'nuff said.

WHERE"S YOUR REBUTTAL ?

HAHA

I WON YOU SUCKA..!!!

Back to TX vs CA

Both have pluses and minuses. It's up to the person's own opinion what place fits them better. The new GOPs now can suck it!!!! BRING IT ON MURDOCH FANS!!!

Max E. · Mar 23, 2012

Quote from sfbayarea:

WHERE"S YOUR REBUTTAL ?

HAHA

I WON YOU SUCKA..!!!

Back to TX vs CA

Both have pluses and minuses. It's up to the person's own opinion what place fits them better. The new GOPs now can suck it!!!! BRING IT ON MURDOCH FANS!!!