Texas schools board rewrites US history with lessons promoting God and guns

[jem]

Now that you see that this quote of yours was dead ass wrong ...


"Fact remains, The Bill of Rights were founding legal documents which effectively removed, by law, from states' action or control, the very thing you are fantasizing the country was founded on.
Just get over it."

(this really was a Stu's quote - he thought the bill of rights was meant by the state's delegates to control the states even though there was not 14th amendment yet. )

Since you now know you do not understand the bill of rights... and as I have told you for 5 years that the establishment clause was designed to throttle the Feds so that all the states could continue to support or establish religion... do you wish to admit you were wrong.

 

[unretired]

Quote from 377OHMS:

My pleasure. Here is Ron at an after-church outing with a fine example of the M-14 which can be found in millions of households in the USA, most of them acquired in the last year, 'cause "Nothing says Hate like .308":

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Some of you libtards will probably wet your pants watching this.

LOL !

Classic American Humor ... ya gotta love it ... or move your arse to
somewhere else where oppression is not held back by free people.

 

[stu]

Quote from jem:

Now that you see that this quote of yours was dead ass wrong ...


"Fact remains, The Bill of Rights were founding legal documents which effectively removed, by law, from states' action or control, the very thing you are fantasizing the country was founded on.
Just get over it."

(this really was a Stu's quote - he thought the bill of rights was meant by the state's delegates to control the states even though there was not 14th amendment yet. )

Since you now know you do not understand the bill of rights... and as I have told you for 5 years that the establishment clause was designed to throttle the Feds so that all the states could continue to support or establish religion... do you wish to admit you were wrong.

You're like a fat boy standing in the corner of the playground who, contrary to all advice and information, keeps stuffing his face with junk food, whilst getting all confused and vindictive for not understanding how he can't keep up the with the other kids running around.

The separate argument of what, how or why the establishment clause was designed is nothing to do with the effect it had, which was in fact as Founding Documents, to effectively remove by law from states' action or control, the very thing you are fantasizing the country was founded on.

Like the fat boy's fatness , your inability to understand that flaming obvious fact will be down to the religious junk food you consume in order to feed an ever growing bulk of contrary absurdity lodged between those chubby ears.


Nothing can Hate quite like a Christian state

 

[jem]

You are delusional. The Supreme Court says you are wrong.


Prior to the ratification of the Fourteenth Amendment and the development of the incorporation doctrine, in 1833 the Supreme Court held in Barron v. Baltimore that the Bill of Rights applied only to the federal, but not any state, government. Even years after the ratification of the Fourteenth Amendment the Supreme Court in United States v. Cruikshank, still held that the First and Second Amendment did not apply to state governments...

So your argument that the establishment clause of the bill or rights was designed to eliminate state ties to religion is ignorant and incorrect. Nor was it applied to the states for about a century. Nor could it be until after the 14th amendment was passed.

The states had established religions. No amount of your atheist b.s can change that fact of history.

 

[stu]

Quote from jem:
So your argument that the establishment clause of the bill or rights was designed to eliminate state ties to religion is ignorant and incorrect. Nor was it applied to the states for about a century. Nor could it be until after the 14th amendment was passed.

That is not my argument you idiot.

Quote from stu :
"Your perverse line of argument then is still to make up incorrect religiously skewed statements, post a link yourself in which it confirms your statements are incorrect , and then claim your statements are correct."

...and you're still doing that. How gaumless can you get?


Look....

The Bill of Rights were the Founding Legal Documents which effectively removed, by law, from state governance, action or control, the very thing you are fantasizing the country was founded on.

I have not argued at all in any way whether the enactment of any document or amendments were designed to do that or not. That's a separate issue.

The fact is, those Founding Legal Documents had the effect for whatever reasons, of removing from the Founding of America, the very thing (religion) you are fantasizing founded America.

It couldn't be more clear or more black and white.
But then through a haze of religious mind fog, you think black is white, and write cite as site, and pretend you were a lawyer..


Seriously jem get over the thing.

No amount of religious deceit is going to change the blindingly obvious simple fact that Christianity and all religion was and is, very sensibly and with great foresight, effectively ruled out of state and federal establishment under Founding Law.
Ergo: America is not actually Founded on Christianity or religion at all, especially where it matters most. Constitutionally and in law.
That is a sheer irony for nutty religionists like you and the effect ( not the how and why ), of the Establishment Clause.
You a lawyer?? ha ! Never in a million years.

 

[jem]

I wrote...

"

The irony.... liberals do not even grasp the idea of a limited Federal Government anymore they do not realize why the bill of rights was voted in during the Constitutional Convention.

They do not understand the the majority of states already had very strong ties to Christian Churches at the time of the Constitutional Convention and that the States were afraid the Feds were going to pick a state religion. Hence they required the bill of rights.

Liberals do not realize the bill of Rights was written to make sure the Federal Government did not seize state power. They do not know three quarters of the states had ties to state Churches, paid for Christian education in schools, and or required that its state officials be Christians or believers in God to hold office.

The list goes on and on about how Christian the States were and they set up the Constitution to protect themselves from the feds."


you wrote --

Quote from stu:

The real irony must be in the fact that....the Bill of Rights constitutes in law how state governance is to be free from, and free of, the very thing you imagine the country was founded on.

I then explained to you that the bill of rights did not apply to the states - it was designed to protect the states rights to established religions. I explained the Supreme Court has said so.

It was not until the 14th amendment came about the the Courts could begin to create law with their incorporation doctrine.

--


You are dead ass wrong and dead ass deceptive.
What you need to write is --


...the Bill of Rights constitutes in law how state governance is to be free from, and free of, federal government interference with the states establishment of religion.

Prior to the ratification of the Fourteenth Amendment and the development of the incorporation doctrine, in 1833 the Supreme Court held in Barron v. Baltimore that the Bill of Rights applied only to the federal, but not any state, government. Even years after the ratification of the Fourteenth Amendment the Supreme Court in United States v. Cruikshank, still held that the First and Second Amendment did not apply to state governments. ...

 

[stu]

Quote from jem:
You pretend to be ignorant.
Are you an American?
Every educated American knows the Bill of Rights was included to throttle the anticipated Federal govt. Your argument is impossible because the 14 th amendment did not come out for about another century.

The establishment clause was not applied to the states for close to 2 centuries.

again from wikipedia... and what every educated american knows.

Every edgikatid strongly biased christian un-American, slants, contorts and tortures American history to support their silly religious superstitions as much as possible

Every educated American knows what Article 6 of the Constitution says, and the irony in what affect 14th amendment law had on the notion that the country (state or fed) was founded on religion or christianity. It slams the idea.
Any States who used religion, especially as a condition of office which you obviously imagine was a good thing, were blatantly doing so against the Founding Constitution.

That it took the Supreme Court to make them eventually honor their constitutional oath much later via separate case in law, is irrelevant to the fact they were breaking constitutional law, but is the real irony for certain religious nutters like yourself as it is yet another law to help them realise religion was not in the Founding of America.

 

[stu]

Quote from jem:

I wrote...

"
The irony.... liberals do not even grasp the idea of a limited Federal Government anymore they do not realize why the bill of rights was voted in during the Constitutional Convention.

They do not understand the the majority of states already had very strong ties to Christian Churches at the time of the Constitutional Convention and that the States were afraid the Feds were going to pick a state religion. Hence they required the bill of rights.

Liberals do not realize the bill of Rights was written to make sure the Federal Government did not seize state power. They do not know three quarters of the states had ties to state Churches, paid for Christian education in schools, and or required that its state officials be Christians or believers in God to hold office.

The list goes on and on about how Christian the States were and they set up the Constitution to protect themselves from the feds."
[...]

I then explained to you that the bill of rights did not apply to the states - it was designed to protect the states rights to established religions. I explained the Supreme Court has said so.

It was not until the 14th amendment came about the the Courts could begin to create law with their incorporation doctrine.

You are dead ass wrong and dead ass deceptive.
What you need to write is --

...the Bill of Rights constitutes in law how state governance is to be free from, and free of, federal government interference with the states establishment of religion.

Prior to the ratification of the Fourteenth Amendment and the development of the incorporation doctrine, in 1833 the Supreme Court held in Barron v. Baltimore that the Bill of Rights applied only to the federal, but not any state, government. Even years after the ratification of the Fourteenth Amendment the Supreme Court in United States v. Cruikshank, still held that the First and Second Amendment did not apply to state governments. ...

Dear me jem, you are sorely confused through your willful perversion of the facts.

Quote from jem
"Prior to the ratification of the Fourteenth Amendment and the development of the incorporation doctrine, in 1833 ....."

Prior to the Fourteenth Amendment which once again I repeat for your edification…. ironically had the effect of confirming the country was not founded on any religion including Christianity disregardless…. this Constitutional Law always stood anyway, as of course it does to this day...

...Article 6 of the United States Constitution ratified 1788; 45 years prior to the Fourteenth

• 
  "The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and the Members of the several State Legislatures, and all executive and judicial Officers, both of the United States and of the several States, shall be bound by Oath or Affirmation, to support this Constitution; but no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States."

..which makes perfectly clear how the Constitutional Law of the country affirms both Federal and individual states and all their representatives were not to even look for the presence of religion when considering matters of acceptance of their own and others positions in administration.

Trying to sidetrack the fact that religion was not to be part of the Founding of America and quite perversely argue the opposite by reference to later Law (Barron v. Baltimore)... which came along to deal with questions about slavery and citizenship, not religion, but which did in effect confirm the Bill of Rights applied to states in any event and not just to federal government (as if that ever needed to be confirmed after Article 6) ..... represents a small portion of the utter dishonesty you'll adopt just to reinforce that ridiculous superstition you call Christianity.

Ardent religious apologists like yourself are constantly having to interpret the Bible to say things it doesn't. So no surprise you'll try to do the same with the Constitution.

 

[jem]

It is difficult to argue with person like Stu - He makes up his own history and applies law out of context.

Facts -- which are proven.

1. At the time of the Constitutional Convention a majority of states either had ties to Christian Churches or had established Christian Churches. Until the 1950s states still taught the bible in Public schools.

2. The bill of rights to the U.S. Constitution was set up to limit the powers of the federal government.

3. The Bill of Rights was set up make sure the Feds did not establish a national religion. This is fact supported by U.S. Supreme Court Case law.

4. The U.S. Supreme court found that the bill of Rights did not apply to the States. So the establishment clause did not interfer with the States rights to establish religion at the time of our founding. (This was the law until after the 14th amendment. (after the civil war).

So at the time of the founding... our states supported religion by case law and state Constitution. (which I have cited here on other threads)

Separately the U.S. Supreme Court declared that we are (were) a Christian nation. (cited here on other threads).




the only way for Stu to be correct is...

Well he can't be correct because we are arguing about Constitutional law... and the final authority is the U.S. Supreme Court.

I have produced the case law which said the establishment clause could not be applied to the states. Hence later case law does not change the fact that at the time... it was legal for the states to have established religion.

 

[stu]

Come on jem fess up. Who are you trying to fool, apart from yourself. Is this an attempt to impress your priest or something?

The Constitution is the supreme law of the land and it requires in Article 6 that to hold office no federal or state shall require any religious test so to do. That is state or federal. So it applies to both.


Most examples of any state sponsored/supported religion was removed before 1850.
14th Amendment in1868, truly ironically for your ridiculous argument , resulted in all references being removed from state constitutions.

Therefore it is a fact that Founding Documents effectively removed any notion that America was being founded on religion.


How the Supreme Court applies Constitutional Law specific to individual case law is a separate matter altogether and does not alter what the Constitution in Article 6 says and Bill of Rights 14th Amendment actually affects.

I suggest you go to an American school which will teach you true American history, not one that churns out the religiously delusional brainwashed like yourself, who despite the glaringly obvious, completely succumb to christian indoctrination like a hypnotized sheep.
You know, not the type of school that didn't show you the difference between cite and site.