Tax the rich

[saxon22]

Quote from version77:

How much effect do you believe there still is? Enough to cause
a big difference? How much of a difference? I want to hear what
you believe.

Slavery was a long time ago. If one is not over it yet then it is time
to get over it.

Just look at the inner cities, the average wealth of black people in the US as opposed to white. Look at the Mississippi delta and the south in general. There are still a lot of poor folks living there.
There are many publications linking slavery with current conditions of black people in this country.

Slaver only ended 130 years ago (more or less). However, legal segregation only ended around 40 years ago, and one could very well make an argument that it still continues today.

Funny, how it is OK for people to make statements like: " Slavery was a long time ago. If one is not over it yet then it is time
to get over it." and think nothing of it.
I wonder how would people react if you would make the same statement about Holocaust. Would they say, yes you are right them Jews just keep on complaining and want us to feel sorry for them. Thye got their museum in DC and everybody knows about their Holo-something, so let's just "MOVE ON". Funny how anti-semitic that sounds right? Yet when it comes to slavery comments like yours are OK even if when applied to another group they would sound offensive. And that my boy is a perfect example of racism in the good old USA.

 

[saxon22]

Quote from FightTheFuture:

Those are extremely low numbers that you picked out to your liking. In many areas of the world, Irish slaves outnumbered the free population let alone the African slave population. As a percentage of population, Ireland lost more to slavery than Africa. According to your views, the Irish culture should have been destroyed after being brought to the US. That did not happen.

The point is not how many anyway. The point is why are there so many millions of successful black Americans? They excel and surpass in profession, family, and business. Could it be that they are not waiting around for a handout? Could it be that they are not blaming someone else for their problems and are taking the initiative to improve their lives just like everyone has to? Could it be that they want more out of life than the basics being provided for them?

And what's it got to do with black people anyway? The same thing happens to whites and others that become addicted to multi-generational government assistance. A lot of people don't want more than food, clothing, shelter, TV and beer and cigarettes. Why work for the basics when it can be provided for you? From one generation to the next. Don't you think that their children learn that this is how it's done, that everything will be provided for them without earning it?

The numbers I picked are the numbers that I got,point to a source that supports your claims. Be that as it may, Ireland had been affected by slavery. until very recently, Ireland was not so hot in economic or social terms. I have been to the island in the mid 80's and there was nothing attractive about the whole pub culture, religious views, or husband -wife relations to write home about. Also,Ireland was probablythe the last country I would want to be black in. Granted, the place have changed tremendously in the last 20 years, but before that it was anything but a bastion of free thinking or intellectual forefront of Europe. So in my opinion, slavery did affect Ireland in many ways. The sam could be stated about the Irish in USA.

The question is why are there so many black people who are not making it???? is it because of as you call it "hand outs"? I doubt it. Western Europe including Scandinavian countries have had the highest rate of handouts, yet I do not see their economy stagnating and people being super lazy and unproductive. How come there, despite such a high degree od government help to those who need it, their economies and societies are functioning and are very prosperous. Do you really think tha the answer is to provide very little to the people like it is done in third world countries? And if that is your solution, then why all those countries who provide very little social services are still very poor, and those countries that are welfare states like Germany are doing so well?

 

[archipus]

Quote from saxon22:

The numbers I picked are the numbers that I got,point to a source that supports your claims. Be that as it may, Ireland had been affected by slavery. until very recently, Ireland was not so hot in economic or social terms. I have been to the island in the mid 80's and there was nothing attractive about the whole pub culture, religious views, or husband -wife relations to write home about. Also,Ireland was probablythe the last country I would want to be black in. Granted, the place have changed tremendously in the last 20 years, but before that it was anything but a bastion of free thinking or intellectual forefront of Europe. So in my opinion, slavery did affect Ireland in many ways. The sam could be stated about the Irish in USA.

The question is why are there so many black people who are not making it???? is it because of as you call it "hand outs"? I doubt it. Western Europe including Scandinavian countries have had the highest rate of handouts, yet I do not see their economy stagnating and people being super lazy and unproductive. How come there, despite such a high degree od government help to those who need it, their economies and societies are functioning and are very prosperous. Do you really think tha the answer is to provide very little to the people like it is done in third world countries? And if that is your solution, then why all those countries who provide very little social services are still very poor, and those countries that are welfare states like Germany are doing so well?

Western europe did not have the highest degree of handouts. Eastern europe did. Does that answer any of your questions?

 

[Cesko]

Quote from saxon22:

Mistreating the slaves was not done for entertaining purposes. However, there were punished and disciplined if they did not follow the rules. How else were you going to keep them obedient? There are many well documented examples of keeping the slaves in line. I suggest you acquaint yourself with some before you embarrass yourself again.
Just to bring my point across even further, could you explain for us simple folk why the conditions of importing the slaves were so horrendous? Even the most ignorant are aware of the unpleasant accommodations that were afforded to those making the transatlantic voyage from Africa to the New World. If this was simple economic then why would the cargo be so neglected? After all if each slave was worth up to $100,000 (according to you), then why such a mistreatment?

By the 17th century slaves could be purchased in Africa for about $25 and sold in the Americas for about $150. After the slave-trade was declared illegal, prices went much higher. Even with a death-rate of 50 per cent, merchants could expect to make tremendous profits from the trade.

Does it answer your question?? Again simple economics. They were bought "wholesale" in Africa so to speak.

I never said they were not mistreated, I said they were not mistreated frivolously as you suggested (....on daily basis)

 

[Cesko]

By the way I was talking about slaves in America following the thread's subject.

 

[Cesko]

Can anybody count all the dead people as a result of French and Russian revolution? Both of them were supposed to make people equal. News: IT WILL NEVER HAPPEN.

Viewing globalisation as an overwhelmingly negative force, citizens of rich countries are looking to governments to cushion the blows they perceive have come from the liberalisation of their economies to trade with emerging countries.

Since when mob has any clue?

 

[AAAintheBeltway]

Quote from saxon22:

The numbers I picked are the numbers that I got,point to a source that supports your claims. Be that as it may, Ireland had been affected by slavery. until very recently, Ireland was not so hot in economic or social terms. I have been to the island in the mid 80's and there was nothing attractive about the whole pub culture, religious views, or husband -wife relations to write home about. Also,Ireland was probablythe the last country I would want to be black in. Granted, the place have changed tremendously in the last 20 years, but before that it was anything but a bastion of free thinking or intellectual forefront of Europe. So in my opinion, slavery did affect Ireland in many ways. The sam could be stated about the Irish in USA.

The question is why are there so many black people who are not making it???? is it because of as you call it "hand outs"? I doubt it. Western Europe including Scandinavian countries have had the highest rate of handouts, yet I do not see their economy stagnating and people being super lazy and unproductive. How come there, despite such a high degree od government help to those who need it, their economies and societies are functioning and are very prosperous. Do you really think tha the answer is to provide very little to the people like it is done in third world countries? And if that is your solution, then why all those countries who provide very little social services are still very poor, and those countries that are welfare states like Germany are doing so well?

Put the populations of Sweden or Germany in the US and they would do even better. Socialism can work, if not flourish, in countries with homogeneous populations who share common values, like work, honesty,etc. It can never work where half the population expects the other half to support them.

 

[ZZZzzzzzzz]

You really believe half the population in the US expects the other half to support them?

Seek treatment for your Hannityism...

Quote from AAAintheBeltway:

Put the populations of Sweden or Germany in the US and they would do even better. Socialism can work, if not flourish, in countries with homogeneous populations who share common values, like work, honesty,etc. It can never work where half the population expects the other half to support them.

 

[FightTheFuture]

Quote from saxon22:The numbers I picked are the numbers that I got,point to a source that supports your claims. Be that as it may, Ireland had been affected by slavery. until very recently, Ireland was not so hot in economic or social terms. I have been to the island in the mid 80's and there was nothing attractive about the whole pub culture, religious views, or husband -wife relations to write home about. Also,Ireland was probablythe the last country I would want to be black in. Granted, the place have changed tremendously in the last 20 years, but before that it was anything but a bastion of free thinking or intellectual forefront of Europe. So in my opinion, slavery did affect Ireland in many ways. The sam could be stated about the Irish in USA.

The question is why are there so many black people who are not making it???? is it because of as you call it "hand outs"? I doubt it. Western Europe including Scandinavian countries have had the highest rate of handouts, yet I do not see their economy stagnating and people being super lazy and unproductive. How come there, despite such a high degree od government help to those who need it, their economies and societies are functioning and are very prosperous. Do you really think tha the answer is to provide very little to the people like it is done in third world countries? And if that is your solution, then why all those countries who provide very little social services are still very poor, and those countries that are welfare states like Germany are doing so well?

Quote from FightTheFuture:.... The point is, why are there so many millions of successful Black Americans? They excel and surpass in profession, family, and business. ..... are they taking the initiative to improve their lives just like everyone else has to? .....

It might be an idea to ask a lot of very successful or at least satisfied Americans, black, white, etc., as to the secret of their success. I bet they won't say it's because of higher taxes, or government programs.

Is it materialism that you are concerned about? Should more be given to the poor other than something adequate? Should the poor be given iPods, $100 tennis shoes, a $35K car because others have all that? I am poor and quite happy with it. I do not have an iPod, nor do I want one. I have never had a pair of $100 shoes, more like $20 shoes that are more than good enough. I do, however, own a $500, 16 year old truck with 237,000 miles on it. I don't care if I ever have a new vehicle again. I don't care about possessions. I've been on medical leave for 5 years with no assistance from anyone or anything, nor am I expecting it. I did not even attempt to apply for Disincentive Social INsecurity Disability Benefits. How's all that as an incentive to become healthy and successful?

All of us are descendants of slaves, yet almost 30 million people are in slavery today. You seem to care so much about slavery. What is it that you are doing for the slaves of today?

If you want to be successful, trade your wishbone for a backbone and get to work. Don't bother waiting around for the government to help you. The government will not make you happy, and equally wealthy to those that have more than you, because someone will always be better off than you. The best thing that any country's government can do for its people is to provide a less restrictive environment to make it easier for all to become more successful.

 

[saxon22]

Quote from archipus:

Western europe did not have the highest degree of handouts. Eastern europe did. Does that answer any of your questions?

You mean like waiting for a government apartment for ... 20 years? Those countries were poor (by European standards mind you) and could not offer much in terms of material goods. Again, please do not confuse Eastern European poverty with real poverty of capitalist states of the Third World. I have travelled extensively to both Eastern Europe when it was under the Soviet sphere of influence ( I have been to all of them except for Albania) and close to 20 third world countries and there is no comparison.
However, what those countries lacked in material goods, was often compensated by other services that most third world countries can only dream of. Here is a list:
1. superb education - finishing high school would be equivalent to receiving a MA degree in the USA - trust me I know I have been lecturing for past 13 years and the level of knowledge of most US students is laughable and shameful.
2. health care - by world standards it was very decent, free and available to all.
3. Crime - non existent
4. affordability - rent was a couple of days worth of work, food, very cheap and again available to all most of the time. The selection was subpart but nobody was going to bed hungry.
5. Secure unemployment - everybody had a job and it was secure.
Now,to somebody who grew up in a wealthy family all of the above would probably mean nothing, but to working class people it was not a bad deal.