Tax the rich

[version77]

Quote from saxon22:



As for the destruction of the black family structure I am sure the couple hundred years of slavery had nothig to do with it right?

Over 44% of black women never get married. Most black men
run every time they get someone pregnant.

I guess you can blame that on the fact their great great great
grandma was a slave. She must of put a curse on them.

Sounds logical to me. Oh, btw... the Earth IS flat and I have a
bridge in Minnesota that I will sell you cheap.

 

[eusdaiki]

Problem with taxng the rich, is that the rich can hire expensive attorneys that teach em how to appear poor... or take everysingle loophole to get out of taxes [the loopholes their rich politician friends accidently left for them...]

The best way to tax the rich is to lay down a flat tax, low amount, no exceptions... that way everyone pays [rich and poor] according to their means... no exceptions, no loopholes, a real simple law that fits in half a page... if you earn $1000 per month, you pay 100 and if you earn 10000 you pay 1000 the rich pay more in [$], but everyone pays the same [in %]

 

[AAAintheBeltway]

Quote from saxon22:

Quote from AAAintheBeltway:

You can't cite a single Bible verse or quote from Jesus that equates high taxes and government spending with concern for the poor. In fact, it is quite clear in the New Testament that one of the most reviled classes of people were "publicans" or tax collectors, no doubt for the same reasons they are today.
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Ans: Then explain this quote: "Render unto Caesar the things which are Caesar’s, and unto God the things that are God’s”.
and since we are quoting the scripture, how about this one:
"...I tell you the truth, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God. Matthew 19:2"




Liberals always act like we don't spend a dime on the poor, so anyone opposing more welfare programs is "against the poor." In fact, we have spent trillions in the War on Poverty, to little effect.
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ANS:
Do you really think that the poor have not benefited from all those programs??? I suggest you read or perhaps in your case watch documentaries depicting poor people in the US 50 years ago and now. There is a significant difference.

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A powerful case can be made that government welfare has had the perverse effect of making the poor and society worse off. Before the "Great Society", welfare recipients were stigmatized. Liberals huffed that they shouldn't be. Unwed motherhood was a particular stigma. Again, liberals stepped in to remove the shame and make things easier for these unfortunate women. Of course, the (predictable) result was an explosion in unwed births, the destruction of the black family structure and the hellish inner cities we have now. Thanks a lot liberals. I'd hate to see what you would have done to them if you weren't "helping" them.
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ANS: Welfare programs started as a direct result of the Great Depression: Here is a quote:

"The effect of the Depression on poor children was particularly severe. Grace Abbott, head of the federal Children's Bureau, reported that in the spring of 1933, 20 percent of the nation's school children showed evidence of poor nutrition, housing, and medical care. School budgets were cut and in some cases schools were shut down for lack of money to pay teachers. An estimated 200,000 boys left home to wander the streets and beg because of the poor economic condition of their families. "

I am sure those folks who were helped then did not deserve it and it just made them have more kids and get lazy right?

As for the destruction of the black family structure I am sure the couple hundred years of slavery had nothig to do with it right? It was the extra $$$$ and programs that destroyed it. If you believe this I have a couple of bridges for sale.

I know I'm wasting my time on you, but I feel an obligation to help the unfortunate and give back to society.

"Render unto Caesar" : Do you think the Romans ran a welfare system? The quote had to do with resisting civil authority.

"Rich man entering heaven": Again, you seem to have missed the point. Why was it so hard? Because they loved money more than their fellow man. "The love of money is the root of all evil." Not wealth but the love of wealth. Charity is the antithesis of this attitude. Take a look at the parable of the talents also.


Effect of welfare programs. You are talking about basic health and food programs that started 80 years ago. I am talking about more modern programs that have institutionalized poverty and dysfunctional family structure. Really, you are demonstrating my point. You act like every single dollar spent on the poor is equally useful. It is not. No one objects to helping people in dire need. We do object to welfare as a career or way of life for able-bodied people.

As for black family structure, Thomas Sowell and Walter Williams, two black academics, have demonstrated that the breakdown in the black family structure began in the '60's. Until then black family structure and statistics on things like illegitimacy were not all that different from whites. Some of the highest peforming high schools in the country were segregated all black schools. Drive through the slums of any east coast or midwestern city. Those crack houses and falling down row houses used to house traditional middle class black families. The neighborhoods were safe, the schools produced graduates who could read and write and the local economy was vibrant.

 

[saxon22]

Quote from version77:

Over 44% of black women never get married. Most black men
run every time they get someone pregnant.

I guess you can blame that on the fact their great great great
grandma was a slave. She must of put a curse on them.

Sounds logical to me. Oh, btw... the Earth IS flat and I have a
bridge in Minnesota that I will sell you cheap.

assuming that your numbers are correct, do you really think that the social system that was developed for the slaves bear no effect on the people today? Just look at the jewish population and the effect of Holocaust on them. Also, look at them and explain how they managed to do so well in our and many other societies. Your values come directly from your culture, therefore if i young jewish boy is introduced to the study of Talmud, Torah and other religious jewish writings don't you think that his mind will developed in a certain way as opposed to somebody whose father was sold to another master, whose mother was raped many a time, whose family might have been separated several times throughout his life. A family where teaching how to read would be punishable by death, where books were never allowed, where people were demeaned, beaten, and abused on daily basis. You really think that somehow by telling them in 1865:
" you are free now go and find yourself a new place to exist" somehow cleansed this country of all its sinsand that there is no longer any responsibility on the part of government or regular folks to help them because after all they have their freedom now and therefore an equal start. You tell me how are you going to instill the importance of reading to your kids if you yourself was never read to as a child? How do you re-build a family structure which for decades was repeatedly broken by selling off different members of the family to other masters? And finally, how do you change a society where for generations one side was called yes masta, yes sir, and the other side was called "boy" or nigger?
Those kinds of wounds create deep scars and they do not heel very easily. Life like trading is not simple. Or perhaps it seems simple to those who have yet to master it (in this case both trading and life).

Just read the above words and try to think and understand the pain.

 

[Cesko]

......, where people were demeaned, beaten, and abused on daily basis.
The problem with people like you is no clue about economics. Slaves were a private property(expensive!!!) so treating them bad was not in slave-owner's best interest. Healthy strong slave(male) cost $100,000 in today's money approximately. Are you going to mistreat really expensive "capital tool" for no reason????

 

[version77]

Quote from saxon22:

assuming that your numbers are correct, do you really think that the social system that was developed for the slaves bear no effect on the people today?

How much effect do you believe there still is? Enough to cause
a big difference? How much of a difference? I want to hear what
you believe.

Slavery was a long time ago. If one is not over it yet then it is time
to get over it.

 

[FightTheFuture]

Quote from saxon22:

assuming that your numbers are correct, do you really think that the social system that was developed for the slaves bear no effect on the people today? Just look at the jewish population and the effect of Holocaust on them. Also, look at them and explain how they managed to do so well in our and many other societies. Your values come directly from your culture, therefore if i young jewish boy is introduced to the study of Talmud, Torah and other religious jewish writings don't you think that his mind will developed in a certain way as opposed to somebody whose father was sold to another master, whose mother was raped many a time, whose family might have been separated several times throughout his life. A family where teaching how to read would be punishable by death, where books were never allowed, where people were demeaned, beaten, and abused on daily basis. You really think that somehow by telling them in 1865:
" you are free now go and find yourself a new place to exist" somehow cleansed this country of all its sinsand that there is no longer any responsibility on the part of government or regular folks to help them because after all they have their freedom now and therefore an equal start. You tell me how are you going to instill the importance of reading to your kids if you yourself was never read to as a child? How do you re-build a family structure which for decades was repeatedly broken by selling off different members of the family to other masters? And finally, how do you change a society where for generations one side was called yes masta, yes sir, and the other side was called "boy" or nigger?
Those kinds of wounds create deep scars and they do not heel very easily. Life like trading is not simple. Or perhaps it seems simple to those who have yet to master it (in this case both trading and life).

Just read the above words and try to think and understand the pain.

Saxon22, I suggest strongly that you read and learn about the long history of the huge, white Irish slave trade.

Irish slaves were not nearly as valuable as African slaves and so were treated as such.

Those Irish "lucky" enough to be free in the US were treated lower than the lowest. They belonged to no one. They were not valuable property. If they were believed to be unfit for slavery, they were unfit for any type of employment.

Ireland's population in 1641 was 1.46 million. 10 years later it was 600 thousand. 100,000 children were taken from their parents and a larger number of adults were sold into slavery in the West Indies and New England.

And yet where are the complaints from the Irish in America today about their past abuses? Where are their demands for restitution? Where is the family disintegration? The multi-generational dependence on welfare?

 

[saxon22]

Quote from FightTheFuture:

Saxon22, I suggest strongly that you read and learn about the long history of the huge, white Irish slave trade.

Irish slaves were not nearly as valuable as African slaves and so were treated as such.

Those Irish "lucky" enough to be free in the US were treated lower than the lowest. They belonged to no one. They were not valuable property. If they were believed to be unfit for slavery, they were unfit for any type of employment.

Ireland's population in 1641 was 1.46 million. 10 years later it was 600 thousand. 100,000 children were taken from their parents and a larger number of adults were sold into slavery in the West Indies and New England.

And yet where are the complaints from the Irish in America today about their past abuses? Where are their demands for restitution? Where is the family disintegration? The multi-generational dependence on welfare?

This is the figure that i got:
As a matter of fact Ireland's involvement with the slave trade was in providing slaves. In the 1650s Cromwell sent thousands of Irish men and women to Barbados, Montserrat, St Kitts and Antigua. The minimum figure was 12,000. Others put it as high as 50,000. The Irish, not surprisingly, proved to be lousy slaves in the Tropics with an inconsiderate habit of dying quickly from malaria. The English sugar planters turned to our proconsul's friends the black slaves in the 18th century.

50.000 can hardly be compared to numbers that were coming from Africa.

 

[FightTheFuture]

Quote from saxon22:

This is the figure that i got:
As a matter of fact Ireland's involvement with the slave trade was in providing slaves. In the 1650s Cromwell sent thousands of Irish men and women to Barbados, Montserrat, St Kitts and Antigua. The minimum figure was 12,000. Others put it as high as 50,000. The Irish, not surprisingly, proved to be lousy slaves in the Tropics with an inconsiderate habit of dying quickly from malaria. The English sugar planters turned to our proconsul's friends the black slaves in the 18th century.

50.000 can hardly be compared to numbers that were coming from Africa.

Those are extremely low numbers that you picked out to your liking. In many areas of the world, Irish slaves outnumbered the free population let alone the African slave population. As a percentage of population, Ireland lost more to slavery than Africa. According to your views, the Irish culture should have been destroyed after being brought to the US. That did not happen.

The point is not how many anyway. The point is why are there so many millions of successful black Americans? They excel and surpass in profession, family, and business. Could it be that they are not waiting around for a handout? Could it be that they are not blaming someone else for their problems and are taking the initiative to improve their lives just like everyone has to? Could it be that they want more out of life than the basics being provided for them?

And what's it got to do with black people anyway? The same thing happens to whites and others that become addicted to multi-generational government assistance. A lot of people don't want more than food, clothing, shelter, TV and beer and cigarettes. Why work for the basics when it can be provided for you? From one generation to the next. Don't you think that their children learn that this is how it's done, that everything will be provided for them without earning it?

 

[saxon22]

Quote from Cesko:

......, where people were demeaned, beaten, and abused on daily basis.
The problem with people like you is no clue about economics. Slaves were a private property(expensive!!!) so treating them bad was not in slave-owner's best interest. Healthy strong slave(male) cost $100,000 in today's money approximately. Are you going to mistreat really expensive "capital tool" for no reason????

Mistreating the slaves was not done for entertaining purposes. However, there were punished and disciplined if they did not follow the rules. How else were you going to keep them obedient? There are many well documented examples of keeping the slaves in line. I suggest you acquaint yourself with some before you embarrass yourself again.
Just to bring my point across even further, could you explain for us simple folk why the conditions of importing the slaves were so horrendous? Even the most ignorant are aware of the unpleasant accommodations that were afforded to those making the transatlantic voyage from Africa to the New World. If this was simple economic then why would the cargo be so neglected? After all if each slave was worth up to $100,000 (according to you), then why such a mistreatment?