T-Cells . The dirty word/s to the forum's home grown vaccine specialist

gwb-trading said:
[CITATION NEEDED}

I posted a whole bunch of material for over a year from proper medical journals and sources explaining in detail how B and T-cell responses and antibodies interact and operate in regards to viruses. Have you suddenly discovered some new science?

Are you going to parrot jem - claiming that T-cells would magically protect you against Covid even if you had no anti-bodies. It was all part of the anti-vaxxer "natural immunity" nonsense that these magical T-cells would show up and therefore we were close to "herd immunity". Scientists and fact checks have already refuted this nonsense in great detail.
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The parrot here is you, my friend. You don't know what the fuck you are talking about because you never studied any of this in your life.

You read propaganda for two years straight and you suddenly think that you are an expert. Well, I've got a surprise for you: you are a fucking ignorant.

I'm not here to teach you immunology and there's no way I'm going to waste my time trying to teach any of this, something that I spent a great amount of time FORMALLY studying in med school and that one does not learn in one paragraph. But, if you want to know how this can happen, I can point you in the right direction: get any reputable immunology book and look for MHC(Major Histocompatibility Complex) and you will begin to learn how T Cells are MOSTLY NOT activated by antibodies.

gwb-trading said:
Explain to us why why they use anti-body tests (and not T-cell tests) to determine if you are protected against Covid (the same with other diseases such as measles, mumps, etc.).
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Because antibody tests are cheap and easy to apply.(you essentially check for the existence of floating proteins (which is what antibodies are) in the blood stream.
 
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NeoTrader said:

The parrot here is you, my friend. You don't know what the fuck you are talking about because you never studied any of this in your life.

You read propaganda for two years straight and you suddenly think that you are an expert. Well, I've got a surprise to you: you are a fucking ignorant.

I'm not here to teach you immunology and there's no way I'm going to waste my time trying to teach any of this, something that I spent a great amount of time FORMALLY studying in med school and that one does not learn in one paragraph. But, if you want to know how this can happen, I can point you in the right direction: get any reputable immunology book and look for MHC(Major Histocompatibility Complex) and you will begin to learn how T Cells are MOSTLY NOT activated by antibodies.



Because antibody tests are cheap and easy to apply.(you essentially check for the existence of floating proteins (which is what antibodies are) in the blood stream.
More...

Your response is laughable. You can't address the facts (which I have outlined with proper scientific sources for over a year) -- so you simply go attack someone trying to explain reality to you. It's actually SAD.

Yes, I will admit the body's immune system is complex and their is an intricate relationship between T-cells, B-cells, antibodies and other components which are not easily digestible within a few mere paragraphs.

However - you better go read up on how Anti-body immunity and T-Cell responses work for viral diseases in regards to long term immunity.

Explain to us -- when you go to the doctor to see if you are immune to a viral disease, what type of test do they use to see if you are immune to the disease?

And the answer is not "because antibody tests are cheap" -- it is because "T-cell presence tests are meaningless" when it comes to long-term immunity.

The days of putting up with anti-vaxxers pushing nonsense that "T-cell immunity" will magically protect people against Covid forever-- even when they have no detectable antibodies -- is over. We have put up with enough of this anti-vax Covid-denier nonsense which has been fact-checked in detail and found to be false over and over again including their claims that we have already reached "herd immunity" due to "T-cell" immunity. If you have problems with the facts -- then go contact the well respected doctors and medical researchers who were contacted & quoted for these fact checks.
 
gwb-trading said:
Your response is laughable. You can't address the facts (which I have outlined with proper scientific sources for over a year) -- so you simply go attack someone trying to explain reality to you. It's actually SAD.

Yes, I will admit the body's immune system is complex and their is an intricate relationship between T-cells, B-cells, antibodies and other components which are not easily digestible within a few mere paragraphs.

However - you better go read up on how Anti-body immunity and T-Cell responses work for viral diseases in regards to long term immunity.

Explain to us -- when you go to the doctor to see if you are immune to a viral disease, what type of test do they use to see if you are immune to the disease?

And the answer is not "because antibody tests are cheap" -- it is because "T-cell presence tests are meaningless" when it comes to long-term immunity.

The days of putting up with anti-vaxxers pushing nonsense that "T-cell immunity" will magically protect people against Covid -- even when they have no detectable antibodies -- is over. We have put up with enough of this anti-vax Covid-denier nonsense which has been fact-checked in detail and found to be false over and over again including their claims that we have already reached "herd immunity" due to "T-cell" immunity. If you have problems with the facts -- then go contact the well respected doctors and medical researchers who were contacted & quoted for these fact checks.
More...
Nothing I said was anti-vaxx you fucking moron.

I was never against any COVID vaccine. I'm all for anyone who wants to, to get vaccinated. All adults in my family were vaccinated for COVID and I was even the first to be vaccinated because healthcare professionals were the first to be vaccinated in Brazil.

I simply asserted that to say that you cannot have T-cell Response without measurable antibodies for a certain antigen is wrong. And given the fact that the immune response to viruses(and any other intracellular parasite) is mostly cellular(meaning that the infected cell must be destroyed, since it is not possible to "just kill the virus" as is the case with an extracellular bacteria, for example), the hypothesis that a T-Cell immunity would be able to deter a viral infection like COVID is completely plausible.

You are a complete brainwashed ignorant useful idiot.

Now, as you like to say: go read about the MHC. That way you at least try to learn something useful and concrete instead of spending all day long copying and pasting propaganda garbage around here.
 
TreeFrogTrader said:
AHHHROOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!

Have a nice day mate. I have left you with some reading material.

SARS-CoV-2 vaccination creates a strong, persistent T-cell response
Scientists from St. Jude Children's Research Hospital and Washington University in St. Louis have analyzed the T cells that respond to mRNA vaccination and paint a hopeful picture for lasting immunity.

https://www.prnewswire.com/news-rel...ong-persistent-t-cell-response-301450438.html
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I don't need convincing... I'm just a messenger.

Maybe it's a strong T-cell response... if you have any left.

Actually, Omicrom could be/is the definitive reason to NOT get vaccinated nor take any boosters!

That is...

Omicron results in a mild disease and leaves the affected with some natural immunity. That's just my hypothesis and would be a good thing. We'll see.

The notion of "take the vaccine/booster to hopefully avoid Omicron" could be waay more stupid than ridiculous. It's like saying, "take a harmful vaccine (perhaps even poison) to avoid getting the "3-day sniffles".

They are saying, "Omicron mostly runs its course in 3-5 days*". Hell, the common cold runs about 2 weeks. If that's the case, gimme Omicron any day!!

*Considering the harm the vaccines cause, you wanna take a jab for that??

:)
 
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NeoTrader said:
Nothing I said was anti-vaxx you fucking moron.

I was never against any COVID vaccine. I'm all for anyone who wants to, to get vaccinated. All adults in my family were vaccinated for COVID and I was even the first to be vaccinated because healthcare professionals were the first to be vaccinated in Brazil.

I simply asserted that to say that you cannot have T-cell Response without measurable antibodies for a certain antigen is wrong. And given the fact that the immune response to viruses(and any other intracellular parasite) is mostly cellular(meaning that the infected cell must be destroyed, since it is not possible to "just kill the virus" as is the case with an extracellular bacteria, for example), the hypothesis that a T-Cell immunity would be able to deter a viral infection like COVID is completely plausible.

You are a complete brainwashed ignorant useful idiot.

Now, as you like to say: go read about the MHC. That way you at least try to learn something useful and concrete instead of spending all day long copying and pasting propaganda garbage around here.
More...

Maybe you should get back to kissing the ass of your dearly beloved President Bolsonaro. You know the guy you claimed whose popularity was not fading at all. But the reality is that his approval ratings sunk to 19% in late November. Got to love the "Trump of South America".

Your claims that Bolsonaro's popularity has not dropped -- serve as a beacon regarding your tenuous grasp of reality -- when it come to Brazil's president or any other topic.

But for a test -- let's try a basic question -- According to multiple research papers, how long a period of time can someone have a T-cell response to Covid-19 without a detectable level of antibodies being present. I will freely admit there is a short period of time in some papers. Is it a matter of hours, days, weeks or years? Are you trying to proclaim that there is long-term T-cell immunity provided without the presence of antibodies for viruses?
 
gwb-trading said:
Maybe you should get back to kissing the ass of your dearly beloved President Bolsonaro. You know the guy you claimed whose popularity was not fading at all. But the reality is that his approval ratings sunk to 19% in late November. Got to love the "Trump of South America".

Your claims that Bolsonaro's popularity has not dropped -- serve as a beacon regarding your tenuous grasp of reality -- when it come to Brazil's president or any other topic.

But for a test -- let's try a basic question -- According to multiple research papers, how long a period of time can someone have a T-cell response to Covid-19 without a detectable level of antibodies being present. I will freely admit there is a short period of time in some papers. Is it a matter of hours, days, weeks or years? Are you trying to proclaim that there is long-term T-cell immunity provided without the presence of antibodies for viruses?
More...
If you can't read, that is your problem. I already explained it more than once.

Not that I'm surprised. After all, you call "my beloved president" a guy who I repeatedly called a moron in several posts. You are indeed a fucking idiot.
 
gwb-trading said:
[CITATION NEEDED}

I posted a whole bunch of material for over a year from proper medical journals and sources explaining in detail how B and T-cell responses and antibodies interact and operate in regards to viruses. Have you suddenly discovered some new science?

Are you going to parrot jem - claiming that T-cells would magically protect you against Covid even if you had no anti-bodies. It was all part of the anti-vaxxer "natural immunity" nonsense that these magical T-cells would show up and therefore we were close to "herd immunity". Scientists and fact checks have already refuted this nonsense in great detail.

Explain to us why why they use anti-body tests (and not T-cell tests) to determine if you are protected against Covid (the same with other diseases such as measles, mumps, etc.).
More...

T&B cells produce antibodies. They don’t “need” antibodies. Once the body has been exposed to a pathogen, if your immune system is working, they should produce antibodies to fight it. This is why we vaccinate to give an initial exposure that is contained, teaching the immune system what it needs to mount a defense, i.e. antibodies. Once that has happened the body should recognize the pathogen every time it’s exposed and automatically produce the needed and matched response. If the body hasn’t been exposed for a time it doesn’t keep making antibodies, this is normal and why you’re seeing the vaccine wane over time.

Current science tries to continually stimulate the immune system by repeating the vaccination process, in the belief that you continually need antibody production to combat a virus. Wrong!

From day one the concern was a “novel” virus.... hence we’ve never been exposed. Once you’re vaxxed or have recovered, you immune system should have what it needs to recognize Covid and fight it. It doesn’t mean you won’t catch it, can’t pass it but your symptoms should be dramatically reduced because your body now knows how to fight the virus.

Give your immune system a chance, like everything it needs to be exercised.
 
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