Sweet tooth or fat tooth?

[onewaypockets]

Quote from axeman:
he Ornish diet is way to EXTREME and nearly impossible to
follow unless your about to die of a heart attack.
If you were on a good diet to start with, you would never
NEED to be on this diet. If your on this diet NOW "just because"
then your simply a cult follower.

peace

axeman

I would say that is a pretty fair assessment....virtually no one else would have the motivation to stay on such a diet.

 

[GeeTO69]

Quote from onewaypockets:

Quote from axeman:
he Ornish diet is way to EXTREME and nearly impossible to
follow unless your about to die of a heart attack.
If you were on a good diet to start with, you would never
NEED to be on this diet. If your on this diet NOW "just because"
then your simply a cult follower.

peace

axeman

I would say that is a pretty fair assessment....virtually no one else would have the motivation to stay on such a diet.

LOL The diet is easy to follow. It's a vegetarian diet and many many people live vegetarian lifestyle eating delicious nutritious foods every day. I don't understand you guys lol.

 

[randynutts]

Quote from GeeTO69:

The Ornish Plan is proven effective with years of peer reviewed research to back it up. Your claims of what your personal dietary choices or plan will or may do are pure spec on your part. Oh yes you may attempt to extrapolate from basic science cherry picking a fact here or study there but the result is very weak at best whereas Ornish has actual studies on actual subjects.

His results speak for themselves.

The fact that you can't follow the plan is your problem but does nothing to discredit the plan, its results or the research behind it. many have and do follow the plan and they reap the benefits. I realize that even if immortality were the reward there will always be those people such you or dbphoenix that still couldn't make the change.

But again the problem doesn't lie with the science but with you.

And finally, no, I am not LongShot.

Two issues here:

one, does prrof exist for the claims made by diet promoter in this case D. Ornish and

two, can diet be followed or is it impractical.

As for # one I say yes the claims made have good science behind them but

#2 , I say possibly if dieter was wanted the benefits of paln/diet bad enough. Like trading for instance, hard work and discipline will pay off but you have to want it badly enough.

Just my take on this thread.

 

[GeeTO69]

Quote from randynutts:

Two issues here:

one, does prrof exist for the claims made by diet promoter in this case D. Ornish and

two, can diet be followed or is it impractical.

As for # one I say yes the claims made have good science behind them but

#2 , I say possibly if dieter was wanted the benefits of paln/diet bad enough. Like trading for instance, hard work and discipline will pay off but you have to want it badly enough.

Just my take on this thread.

Randy,

No one can argue with the science behind Dean Ornish plan unless looking foolish is your thing.

Kind of amusing listening to the few here who seem to have an axe to grind against Ornish.

Ironic they have concocted their own personal version of one or another of the popular diets then assert their choice is best diet in world. Even better than the original diet plan. Based on what?? A "study" of one? LOL.

It's true you can lead a horse to water..

 

[axeman]

Ornish's "good science" is debateable.

Ornishs research was based on *MANY* factors including:

1) diet
2) stopping smoking
3) stress management
4) regular excercise

To claim that his DIET his fully responsible for the effect
this LIFESTYLE CHANGE plan had on the participants
would be blatantly misleading.

Other reseachers have pointed out this major flaw in
Ornish's results as well, and critized him for it.

I would wager, that if you continued to eat the same,
started excercising, managed your stress and quit smoking,
you would also see improved numbers all around.

The smoking variable is an obvious give away.


peace

axeman

Quote from randynutts:

Two issues here:

one, does prrof exist for the claims made by diet promoter in this case D. Ornish and

two, can diet be followed or is it impractical.

As for # one I say yes the claims made have good science behind them but

#2 , I say possibly if dieter was wanted the benefits of paln/diet bad enough. Like trading for instance, hard work and discipline will pay off but you have to want it badly enough.

Just my take on this thread.

 

[franklin]

Quote from randynutts:

If it is so easy to find something wrong with what you've said in these threads then you really haven't done your homework have you.

Well, since you haven't actually found any of my inevitable, human errors, you obviously know even less than me about this subject, and apparently have little to contribute to this thread. You might try practicing more humility and inquisitiveness, and spend less time throwing stones. I won't respond to your posts again unless they have substance related to the thread topic.

Quote from GeeTO69:

Ironic they have concocted their own personal version of one or another of the popular diets then assert their choice is best diet in world.

I don't see any of us asserting that we have the "best diet in the world". I have much more respect for someone who has "concocted" a diet by taking the best from several plans than for someone who is blindly following a guru.

Diet knowledge is in a constant state of flux. Get used to it.

 

[franklin]

Ornish: We also found that the average patient lost twenty-five pounds in the first year and had kept off approximately one half of that five years later.

A YEAR to lose 25 pounds!?
Gained 1/2 back in 5 years!?

Hey, this is old-world dieting performance. You can do much better on one of the lower-carb, higher-protein diets.

 

[GeeTO69]

Quote from franklin:

A YEAR to lose 25 pounds!?
Gained 1/2 back in 5 years!?

Hey, this is old-world dieting performance. You can do much better on one of the lower-carb, higher-protein diets.

It's all about calories franklin. There is no magic or free lunch.

 

[GeeTO69]

Quote from axeman:

>>Ornish's "good science" is debateable.

No, the science is not "debateable" (debatable).

>>Ornishs research was based on *MANY* factors including:

1) diet
2) stopping smoking
3) stress management
4) regular excercise

To claim that his DIET his fully responsible for the effect
this LIFESTYLE CHANGE plan had on the participants
would be blatantly misleading.

"Many factors, lol there are FOUR, count them. Then do the enitire program. It's proven effective.

>>Other reseachers have pointed out this major flaw in
Ornish's results as well, and critized him for it.

"Major flaw". LOL. His plan gets excellent results, amazing results with critically ill patients. The only flaw here is in your reasoning. HaHa.

>>I would wager, that if you continued to eat the same,
started excercising, managed your stress and quit smoking,
you would also see improved numbers all around.

You would "wager"?? Is this *your* proof? You rest your entire case on pure speculation but you have a problem with Ornish's research?! LOL! You amuse me.

>>The smoking variable is an obvious give away.

An "obvious give away" for what?? That all heart disease is from smoking?? And that cessation of smoking will reverse heart disease and damage?? More pure spec on your part? Thanks for the "interesting" discussion LOL.


peace

axeman

 

[GeeTO69]

Quote from franklin:

>>Well, since you haven't actually found any of my inevitable, human errors, you obviously know even less than me about this subject, and apparently have little to contribute to this thread. You might try practicing more humility and inquisitiveness, and spend less time throwing stones. I won't respond to your posts again unless they have substance related to the thread topic.

Unfortunately, I haven't found anything you've said that has scientific basis. Hopefully if yoiu speak enough you will say something of proven value. I'll continue to watch and hope for this.



>>I don't see any of us asserting that we have the "best diet in the world". I have much more respect for someone who has "concocted" a diet by taking the best from several plans than for someone who is blindly following a guru.

Why? This assumes you know which pieces are the best ones and that your new combination will give you even better results than the original plan. This is a big assumption.

Secondly, I don't call using a specific scientifically proven effective plan "blindly following a guru". Using unproven methods right out of a popular diet book now that is blind and dumb. LOL.

>>Diet knowledge is in a constant state of flux. Get used to it.

"Diet knowledge" is the product of good research and thanks to researchers like Ornish we now have solid evidence on which way to go.