Sweet tooth or fat tooth?

[Gordon Gekko]

Quote from axeman:

Phase 3:
25% carbs = 675 calories = 169 grams carbs
50-55% protein = 1350 - 1485 calories = 337 -371 grams of protein
20- 25% fat = 540 - 675 calories = 60 - 75 grams of fat

axeman, as usual, you are right and venuto rules. he is not some out of shape book author making claims without walking the walk. he knows from experience what works and i do, too. any fat ass posting in this thread should lose their fat before they make a peep here.

i have studied pretty much all of venuto's articles and he is right on. reducing carbs and upping protein DOES WORK--especially if you already have low body fat and want to get ripped. i think venuto's stuff is better than atkins, although they both up protein and reduce carbs.

anyway, i'm pretty much doing venuto's phase 3 right now. today i will run 3 miles in the am and 3 miles in the pm. i will eat ~1800 calories (i cycle my calories), of which about 55% will come from protein powder (from proteinfactory.com <-- they rule). my carbs will come from stuff like grapes, potatoes, etc. and my fat will come from good fat (nuts, flax oil, etc.) and not from a huge steak.

there is more to it than this, but this general approach WORKS.

 

[GeeTO69]

Quote from axeman:



Some interesting notes on the Ornish plan:
http://www.healthyheart.org/Education/Conferences/990609/Abdavis.htm
Dr. Ornish’s very low fat vegetarian diet is too difficult for people to follow.
It causes harmful changes to HDL-cholesterol and triglyceride levels.
It is hard to separate the effects of various intervention strategies used in the study.
It provides insufficient essential fatty acids, particularly omega-3 fatty acids.
Dr. Ornish’s Reversal Diet eliminates nuts, seeds (with the exception of flaxseeds), avocados and olives – many of which have been demonstrated to have coronary protective effects.

As far as im concerned, this particular diet is nearly WORTHLESS
since only a very tiny percentage of americans will be able
to follow a diet which requires a max of 10% fat and 10mg of cholesterol
each day. Not realistic at all.

I would think it would be easy for someone to find something wrong or inconsistent with something I've posted in this thread.



peace

axeman

You're right it was easy to find flaws in your reasoning and facts.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

DEAN ORNISH

Having seen what a powerful difference changes in diet and lifestyle can make, I am concerned that BAM readers may be misled by the inaccurate statements in "Eating for Life."

The article states: "Neither diet [the Ornish diet and the popular Atkins diet] has proven to be effective in the long term, and both can deprive people of nutrients that are essential to good health." It is true that Dr. Atkins has never published any studies in any journal, and it is true that high-protein diets can be hazardous to your health. However, my colleagues and I have spent the past twenty-three years conducting research demonstrating that the progression of even severe coronary heart disease can often be reversed when people make the diet and lifestyle changes that we recommend. Our findings have been in the leading peer-reviewed medical journals, including the Journal of the American Medical Association, The Lancet, Circu-lation, the American Journal of Cardi-ology, and the New England Journal of Medicine. We found that there was even more reversal of coronary athero- sclerosis after five years than after one year, and there were 2.5 times fewer cardiac events in the experimental group than in the randomized control group.

We also found that the average patient lost twenty-five pounds in the first year and had kept off approximately one half of that five years later. In contrast, the government did a survey of all the major weight-loss programs and found that within five years, 97 percent of the people who’d lost weight had regained all of it.

My colleagues and I at the nonprofit Preventive Medicine Research Institute have trained more than twenty hospitals nationwide. We have found no evidence of nutritional deficiencies in those following our dietary recommendations. We found that almost 80 percent of people who were eligible for bypass surgery or angioplasty were able to safely avoid it by making these changes in diet and lifestyle instead. Recently, Medicare agreed to pay for 1,800 patients to go through a demonstration project to determine if similar results can occur in the Medicare population.

It is true that a diet can be too low in fat, but the diet that I recommend for reversing heart disease has approximately 10 percent of calories from fat. One requires only about five percent of calories from fat to provide the essential fatty acids and to absorb all fat-soluble nutrients. Flynn’s assertion that the diet I recommend is so low in fat that the body cannot absorb vegetable nutrients is simply not true.

The article credits Flynn with saying that "there is no evidence that dietary fat has a relationship with weight problems at all. When she conducted a study that placed two groups of people on low-fat and high-fat diets containing the same number of calories, she found no difference in weight loss." This is not surprising, since caloric intake is the major factor in determining weight. However, fat has nine calories per gram, and protein and carbohydrates have only four calories per gram. Therefore, you can consume one third fewer calories on a 10 percent fat diet than on a 40 percent fat diet yet consume the same amount of food. Most weight-loss diets fail because they ask people to consume one third fewer calories by eating one third less food. Sooner or later, people feel hungry and deprived, they get off the diet, they gain the weight back, and they usually blame themselves for not having enough discipline or will- power when they were just going about it in the wrong way.

I am a scientist because I believe in the value of science to help separate fact from fiction. In reviewing the National Library of Medicine database, I was unable to find any articles by Flynn demonstrating that the diet she recommends can help people lose weight and keep it off. I am glad her coauthor was able to lose five pounds after returning from Italy, but this is hardly scientific. Indeed, olive oil, like all oils, is 100 percent fat and contains fourteen grams of fat per tablespoon, almost as much as a scoop of Ben & Jerry’s ice cream. No one would put two scoops of ice cream on their pasta and expect to lose weight, but Flynn would have us believe that two tablespoons of olive oil will magically cause us to do so. I would like to be able to say this is true, but it is not.

The Mediterranean diet is a more healthful diet than the American diet, but it is not as healthful as an Asian diet. The leading cause of death in Mediterranean countries is heart disease. Rates of heart disease, breast cancer, colon cancer, prostate cancer, and other degenerative diseases are higher in most Mediterranean countries than in most Asian countries that consume a low-fat, whole foods, plant-based diet.

Finally, it is common for people to eat low-fat diets that are unhealthful if they are based on simple carbohydrates (white flour, sugar, and alcohol). The diet I recommend is a whole-foods, plant-based diet that consists predominantly of fruits, vegetables, grains, beans, and soy products in their natural forms. These foods are low in disease-causing substances such as cholesterol, saturated fat, and oxidants, and are rich in more than a thousand substances that have anti-cancer, anti–heart disease, and anti-aging properties.

A 10 percent-fat diet is necessary to reverse heart disease without cholesterol-lowering drugs, but more moderate changes may be adequate for preventing disease. To the degree that one moves in that direction, there is a corresponding benefit.

Dean Ornish
Clinical Professor of Medicine
UC San Francisco

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------





Not too shabby for a "worthless diet".

 

[dbphoenix]

Quote from GeeTO69:

Not too shabby for a "worthless diet".

You may want to read the previous thread. All this has been addressed before.

 

[GeeTO69]

Quote from dbphoenix:

You may want to read the previous thread. All this has been addressed before.

Thank you but I've read the entire thread.

 

[dbphoenix]

Quote from GeeTO69:

Thank you but I've read the entire thread.

Then you know all about his inability to control variables.

 

[GeeTO69]

Quote from dbphoenix:

Then you know all about his inability to control variables.

Ah yes Atkins could teach Dean a thing or two about research

 

[axeman]

These are not flaws and incorrect facts.
The *NATIONAL ACADEMY OF SCIENCES* recommended those numbers.


You guys Do realize this red neck with the GTO is LONGSHOT right?
He replies exactly the same way with his usual laughing face.
He just hijacked the thread again as another alias because
he got his ass handed to him on a platter earlier.

The Ornish diet is way to EXTREME and nearly impossible to
follow unless your about to die of a heart attack.
If you were on a good diet to start with, you would never
NEED to be on this diet. If your on this diet NOW "just becuase"
then your simply a cult follower.


peace

axeman

Quote from GeeTO69:

You're right it was easy to find flaws in your reasoning and facts.

 

[dbphoenix]

Quote from axeman:


You guys Do realize this red neck with the GTO is LONGSHOT right?

Once he made his last reply, yes. So that one goes on Ignore as well.

Interesting that he would choose "69" as part of his name

 

[axeman]

Yeah... now I have TWO id's on my ignore list... longshot and longshot...LOL

Although according to longshotspenis, 69 is a misnomer.
In his case its ".9" LMAOOOO

peace

axeman

Quote from dbphoenix:

Once he made his last reply, yes. So that one goes on Ignore as well.

Interesting that he would choose "69" as part of his name

 

[GeeTO69]

Quote from axeman:

These are not flaws and incorrect facts.
The *NATIONAL ACADEMY OF SCIENCES* recommended those numbers.


You guys Do realize this red neck with the GTO is LONGSHOT right?
He replies exactly the same way with his usual laughing face.
He just hijacked the thread again as another alias because
he got his ass handed to him on a platter earlier.

The Ornish diet is way to EXTREME and nearly impossible to
follow unless your about to die of a heart attack.
If you were on a good diet to start with, you would never
NEED to be on this diet. If your on this diet NOW "just becuase"
then your simply a cult follower.


peace

axeman

Quote from GeeTO69:

You're right it was easy to find flaws in your reasoning and facts.

The Ornish Plan is proven effective with years of peer reviewed research to back it up. Your claims of what your personal dietary choices or plan will or may do are pure spec on your part. Oh yes you may attempt to extrapolate from basic science cherry picking a fact here or study there but the result is very weak at best whereas Ornish has actual studies on actual subjects.

His results speak for themselves.

The fact that you can't follow the plan is your problem but does nothing to discredit the plan, its results or the research behind it. many have and do follow the plan and they reap the benefits. I realize that even if immortality were the reward there will always be those people such you or dbphoenix that still couldn't make the change.

But again the problem doesn't lie with the science but with you.

And finally, no, I am not LongShot.