Sweden
- Thread starter apdxyk
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Why Sweden’s COVID-19 Strategy Can’t Work in the U.S.
https://www.healthline.com/health-news/heres-what-happened-in-sweden-and-you-cant-compare-it-to-u-s
Gotta keep it real. For example, pretend you have 10 traders from a country and 9 of them fail...each trader located in a different county of the same country. Someone from one county states only one trader has failed...to that person...its a much brighter picture in the mind of that person because only one trader has failed from his country.
In contrast, a scientist will look at the over all picture of that country which is why they keep saying that 90% of traders from that country has failed. Yeah, some will break down each individual county within in the country to show with counties have higher failures and which had low failures.
Others will then provide reasons or stats to explain the difference in each counties to provide an explanation for the difference.
Completely different health care system, different social economic inequalities and many other things that impact the healthcare system. Yet, if I understood the differences...I may compare one country to another country. If I don't understand the differences, safer to stick with making the comparisons between cities within the same country.
Many of Sweden's cities reminds me of where I live with the same precautions in stores, sidewalks, parks and so on. To be more specific...Gothenburg, Sweden reminds me of my city here in Québec City, Canada.
Yet, I also own a home in Chicago, U.S.A. and will not compare what's going on here in my current location to Chicago...
Completely different health care system with different social economic inequalities.
All of my three locations...completely different health care system with different social economic inequalities and another key variable (differences) mention below.
Yet, with my academic background in the healthcare system, family background and personal background and how geographic / demographic paints a different picture...
Gotta keep it real.
P.S. I lived in Seoul, South Korea for a few years after the military before returning back to the U.S. Same situation their too in Seoul, South Korea and they have a much lower Covid-19 death rate.
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/south-korea/
Yet, mask wearing for protection of the respiratory (lungs) is common practice because of the pollution problem...long before Coronavirus. In fact, mask wearing is very fashionable / artistic in Seoul. It's big business.
My point, cultural habitual differences is another variable in the differences in Covid-19 from one country to another country besides the difference in the healthcare system.
Another variable...travel between the countries along with the ability to quarantine / isolate an infected area from other parts of the same country.
President Trump of the U.S. first big error...he shut down travel from China but didn't listen to his advisors about Europe until it was too late. Canada made the same error.
Cycling is booming in Paris, France. It's also big business now in South, France...two new bike stores open near my home there.
wrbtrader
https://www.healthline.com/health-news/heres-what-happened-in-sweden-and-you-cant-compare-it-to-u-s
Gotta keep it real. For example, pretend you have 10 traders from a country and 9 of them fail...each trader located in a different county of the same country. Someone from one county states only one trader has failed...to that person...its a much brighter picture in the mind of that person because only one trader has failed from his country.
In contrast, a scientist will look at the over all picture of that country which is why they keep saying that 90% of traders from that country has failed. Yeah, some will break down each individual county within in the country to show with counties have higher failures and which had low failures.
Others will then provide reasons or stats to explain the difference in each counties to provide an explanation for the difference.
- Similar analogy - Numbers of Death versus Death Rate
Completely different health care system, different social economic inequalities and many other things that impact the healthcare system. Yet, if I understood the differences...I may compare one country to another country. If I don't understand the differences, safer to stick with making the comparisons between cities within the same country.
Many of Sweden's cities reminds me of where I live with the same precautions in stores, sidewalks, parks and so on. To be more specific...Gothenburg, Sweden reminds me of my city here in Québec City, Canada.
Yet, I also own a home in Chicago, U.S.A. and will not compare what's going on here in my current location to Chicago...
Completely different health care system with different social economic inequalities.
- As stated, I do not live in Sweden...never have lived there.
All of my three locations...completely different health care system with different social economic inequalities and another key variable (differences) mention below.
Yet, with my academic background in the healthcare system, family background and personal background and how geographic / demographic paints a different picture...
Gotta keep it real.
P.S. I lived in Seoul, South Korea for a few years after the military before returning back to the U.S. Same situation their too in Seoul, South Korea and they have a much lower Covid-19 death rate.
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/south-korea/
Yet, mask wearing for protection of the respiratory (lungs) is common practice because of the pollution problem...long before Coronavirus. In fact, mask wearing is very fashionable / artistic in Seoul. It's big business.
My point, cultural habitual differences is another variable in the differences in Covid-19 from one country to another country besides the difference in the healthcare system.
Another variable...travel between the countries along with the ability to quarantine / isolate an infected area from other parts of the same country.
President Trump of the U.S. first big error...he shut down travel from China but didn't listen to his advisors about Europe until it was too late. Canada made the same error.
Cycling is booming in Paris, France. It's also big business now in South, France...two new bike stores open near my home there.
wrbtrader
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The point...
Some countries must shut down and they did. Other countries did not need to shut down and they did not. Then again, there are countries that only did a partial shut down and let their essential businesses stay open.
Just the same, some cities within each country are re-opening while other cities are not because they know exactly what those in their communities are doing.
You gotta sit down and understand the differences in the countries and their communities to understand the impact that the healthcare system, social inequalities and cultural habits.
Specifically, back to Sweden...there are those out there posting headlines that are very misleading / misinformation.
For example, Sweden did in fact shut down certain industries. Thus, it was not a complete shutdown nor can you say that Sweden did not shutdown.
In fact, there's fear within Sweden involving particular industries.
https://www.businessinsider.com/coronavirus-sweden-compels-parents-send-kids-to-school-2020-5
Another fact, in Sweden...they have been shutting down bars and restaurants that didn't follow the social distancing guidelines.
https://www.businessinsider.com/sweden-closing-bars-that-defied-social-distancing-guidelines-2020-4
Also, be careful about listening to someone that states people are paranoid for wiping down their groceries when the location of the stores are not discussed nor if there was a specific outbreak in the stores.
For example, I know two specific grocery stores in Chicago that had outbreaks with their employees due to passing the infection from employee to employee.
If I had to shop at those particular grocery stores...I will wipe down my foods if purchased from those stores. Yet, I'm not there and here in Canada...I typically do not wipe down my foods from the store but there has been one exception.
The exception, there was one particular store (Maxi) that I rarely shop at and I did see an employee coughing and sneezing on the foods in the frozen food section.
I told the store manager what I saw and he then immediately removed the employee from the store and sent him home sick. The groceries I purchased...I did wiped down those foods purchased from Maxi when I returned home.
A few days later, that specific Maxi was listed as a store with a Covid-19 outbreak in which several employees had tested positive. I won't return back to that store. Thus, you can say I'm paranoid.
My point, be careful of the headlines by people that say nobody is wearing mask as if there's not a problem. People in Maxi weren't wearing masks too and places that are problematic (not following the social distancing rules) have been temporary shut down...the same is true in Sweden (see link above).
Yet, one thing is very clear...you can't model Sweden's policy if your social inequalities are different, cultural habits are different and you have a different healthcare system.
Reminder, more young people are becoming infected and require hospitalization all around the world from Covid-19...a big worry if Covid-19 has mutated. The so called 2nd wave can involve a different age group of people. Hopefully, that does not happen.
wrbtrader
Some countries must shut down and they did. Other countries did not need to shut down and they did not. Then again, there are countries that only did a partial shut down and let their essential businesses stay open.
Just the same, some cities within each country are re-opening while other cities are not because they know exactly what those in their communities are doing.
You gotta sit down and understand the differences in the countries and their communities to understand the impact that the healthcare system, social inequalities and cultural habits.
Specifically, back to Sweden...there are those out there posting headlines that are very misleading / misinformation.
For example, Sweden did in fact shut down certain industries. Thus, it was not a complete shutdown nor can you say that Sweden did not shutdown.
In fact, there's fear within Sweden involving particular industries.
https://www.businessinsider.com/coronavirus-sweden-compels-parents-send-kids-to-school-2020-5
Another fact, in Sweden...they have been shutting down bars and restaurants that didn't follow the social distancing guidelines.
https://www.businessinsider.com/sweden-closing-bars-that-defied-social-distancing-guidelines-2020-4
Also, be careful about listening to someone that states people are paranoid for wiping down their groceries when the location of the stores are not discussed nor if there was a specific outbreak in the stores.
For example, I know two specific grocery stores in Chicago that had outbreaks with their employees due to passing the infection from employee to employee.
If I had to shop at those particular grocery stores...I will wipe down my foods if purchased from those stores. Yet, I'm not there and here in Canada...I typically do not wipe down my foods from the store but there has been one exception.
The exception, there was one particular store (Maxi) that I rarely shop at and I did see an employee coughing and sneezing on the foods in the frozen food section.
I told the store manager what I saw and he then immediately removed the employee from the store and sent him home sick. The groceries I purchased...I did wiped down those foods purchased from Maxi when I returned home.
A few days later, that specific Maxi was listed as a store with a Covid-19 outbreak in which several employees had tested positive. I won't return back to that store. Thus, you can say I'm paranoid.
My point, be careful of the headlines by people that say nobody is wearing mask as if there's not a problem. People in Maxi weren't wearing masks too and places that are problematic (not following the social distancing rules) have been temporary shut down...the same is true in Sweden (see link above).
Yet, one thing is very clear...you can't model Sweden's policy if your social inequalities are different, cultural habits are different and you have a different healthcare system.
Reminder, more young people are becoming infected and require hospitalization all around the world from Covid-19...a big worry if Covid-19 has mutated. The so called 2nd wave can involve a different age group of people. Hopefully, that does not happen.
wrbtrader
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Norway and Finland together has more than Sweden's population. Similar culture, geography, food habits etc.
# of deaths due to COVID
Sweden - 5209
Norway + Finland - 620
"Swedish Policy Factor" = 8.40
No evidence of Sweden outperforming economically than Norway or Finland. Sweden has not made much progress in the so called "herd immunity" stupidity either.
Wingnuts in US now support a socialist country with universal healthcare as the model they want to follow in public health policy. Their leader apparently doesn't know whether Finland is part of Russia. So these kinds of analyses may be moot.
Finland and Norway are reopening but shutting out Sweden!!!
Europe is reopening, most likely with restrictions of entry to Americans.
Elections have consequences. Vote.
#KidsInCages; #grandmaUnderground; #Trump2020
Finland and Norway (neighbours of Sweden) knows more about what's really going on inside Sweden to shut their doors on Sweden.
Now the U.S. is on the other side...what comes around...goes around via them shutting their borders to Europe after doing the same to China...
Now Europe is considering doing the same thing to the U.S. with its skyrocketing positive Covid-19 cases and the same in the hospitalizations.
Simply, Europe now sees the U.S. as a liability regardless whom is to be blamed in the U.S.
Canada is the same too...we are not opening up our borders to the U.S. except for essential business while we're reopening up our provincial borders within Canada. Thus, I can go see a friend in Vancouver (Whistler) but I can not fly to anywhere in the U.S...
Too many young people walking around like its no big deal without realizing the impact its going to have on the healthcare system and the economy.
Maybe they should stop paying them to stay home to encourage them to wear mask and social distancing...I know...its very complicated with some states doing well and other states not doing well and many in different phases of the re-opening.
Simply, its starting to look like a clusterfuck in the the U.S. and the Europeans / Canada wants them to stay away.
wrbtrader
Here is why the younger population is ignoring COVID-19:
So, in Southern Cal, those under 40 are about 50% of the population, about 50% of the positive cases but only 3% of the death. Your chances of dying is less than gang violence, automobile accidents, drug OD... If you are 20 something, why worry if you don't worry about the other risks?
Those over 65, if they don't die of this, will probably die of something else.
So, in Southern Cal, those under 40 are about 50% of the population, about 50% of the positive cases but only 3% of the death. Your chances of dying is less than gang violence, automobile accidents, drug OD... If you are 20 something, why worry if you don't worry about the other risks?
Those over 65, if they don't die of this, will probably die of something else.
You should compare the numbers for the last few months...
March to April to May to June
You'll then see why the 18 - 35 year old are becoming more worried / concerned.
Actually, I really don't need to see the chart comparisons. I have relatives working in hospitals that state they see the rise in young people becoming Covid-19 positive and more hospitalization for the young this month than any prior month.
As I stated a few months ago...if young people are not going to be careful...the young will not take this serious enough until they start seeing their friends of similar age group begin to become hospitalize or die from Covid-19.
Peer pressure is more powerful than some health official / government.
Regardless, we'll soon start see those data charts showing the number of hospitalization for the young folks as the government goes into a "scare tactic" from the "public / education tactic" about wearing masks and social distancing.
So far, public / education tactic is not working during the re-opening of the economy.
Many places that had re-open are now closing again after "employees" are testing positive after catching the infection from the "young community" not wearing mask and not respecting the social distancing rules.
Most of the owners of those places are the older crowd although not elderly. They are still worried and concerned especially from fear of being either sued or shut down / fined by health inspectors.
P.S. The other day, my mom told me I'm welcome to fly to the U.S. and visit her when they re-open the border but do not bring my teenagers that thinks the Coronavirus is no big deal. They can just use facetime to talk / see her.
wrbtrader
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What I posted was the cum total number of positive COVID-19 cases in Los Angeles county of ~13M people. Total cases were 90,000 to date, total death, 3,200. 57,000 positive cases were for people under 40 years of age. Death among them: for under 17 = zero, between 17 and 40 = 96.You should compare the numbers for the last few months...
March to April to May to June
You'll then see why the 18 - 35 year old are becoming more worried / concerned.
Actually, I really don't need to see the chart comparisons. I have relatives working in hospitals that state they see the rise in young people becoming Covid-19 positive and more hospitalization for the young this month than any prior month.
As I stated a few months ago...if young people are not going to be careful...the young will not take this serious enough until they start seeing their friends of similar age group begin to become hospitalize or die from Covid-19.
Peer pressure is more powerful than some health official / government.
Regardless, we'll soon start see those data charts showing the number of hospitalization for the young folks as the government goes into a "scare tactic" from the "public / education tactic" about wearing masks and social distancing.
So far, public / education tactic is not working during the re-opening of the economy.
Many places that had re-open are now closing again after "employees" are testing positive after catching the infection from the "young community" not wearing mask and not respecting the social distancing rules.
Most of the owners of those places are the older crowd although not elderly. They are still worried and concerned especially from fear of being either sued or shut down / fined by health inspectors.
P.S. The other day, my mom told me I'm welcome to fly to the U.S. and visit her when they re-open the border but do not bring my teenagers that thinks the Coronavirus is no big deal. They can just use facetime to talk / see her.
wrbtrader
You got to understand, in LA County, annual murder was about 650, total death from flu was 2,000, death from all causes was 62,000. If I were a 20 something in LA, should I worry about been murder or die from COVID-19?
It is a lesson for Government on how to deal with such a pandemic in the free world. People read, people study, people observed and draw their own conclusions then act accordingly, mandate or no mandate. For the young and healthy, health officials, by crying wolf, are losing credibility.
Its an election year...a no response to a Pandemic is a guarantee election defeat after all of the shouting of Make America Great Again. In addition, they knew they could afford to temporary shutdown the economy and then print money to prop up the markets to give an illusion its no big deal for those more worried about their money even though we all know there are little holes in the dam with that approach.
I'm not too concerned about those under 17 and the jury is still out about any long term effects considering there's a growing list of children becoming infected...showing other illnesses.
In contrast, I'm more concerned about the 18 - 35 year old folks. Actually, I'm more concerned now because there's an increasing number of infections and hospitalization from this group since Memorial Day holidays.
Also, I don't know your age, ethnicity, neighborhood you're living in, people you hang out with nor anything about your medical history. Thus, can't tell you if you should be worried about Covid-19 or being murder in L.A.
Only you can answer that and then determine which is more important to you.
Actually, maybe those you voted into office in California are better suited than me to determine how valuable is one life, 10 lives, 100 lives, 1000 lives, 10,000 lives or 100,000 lives if death were to occur via a no response.
The world has a history of no responses / very little response to Pandemics and then paid a price they couldn't afford in comparison to responding to minimize the damage (most will bounce back from).
The thing about a Pandemic...things change fast...unpredictable. Today, it may seem like they had cried wolf...tomorrow it may seem like they didn't cry loud enough. As stated many times, we won't know the real damage until the end of the year. Until then...what's obvious today may not be obvious tomorrow.
Better safe than sorry
Yet, its obvious the 18 - 35 year old folks have made their choice and must now sleep in the bed they've made. Then again...I'm curious what the same group will say when a vaccine is discovered and approved. Will they take the vaccine or say no because they think Covid-19 is no big deal ?
If they take the vaccine, does it imply Covid-19 is in fact a big deal to them ?
wrbtrader
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