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Quote from marketsurfer:

Ok, you do believe 20% plus returns for a day trader can be consistently achieved with very limited risk?
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Maybe you should ask Steve Tvardek.

Quote from Steve Tvardek:

For those on here who don't know me or don't remember me, I traded equities for Hold Brothers (and later Dimension) from 2003-end of 2006. I went from knowing nothing about trading in March of 2003 to making low 6 figures in 2005 and then doubling that in 2006. In 2006, I had 5k risk capital up with the firm and turned that into $230,000 that year by being methodical, disciplined yet aggressive in the certain situations (based on price action, open book etc). I never used more than a couple hundred K in buying power and my goal was to focus on consistency first; exposing myself to the least amount of risk I could while still earning a nice living. For 2 years (2005 and 2006) I posted my P&L every day in the P&L thread here on ET, which I just recently found and went back through for old times sake. :)
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http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=258516
 
Quote from marketsurfer:

I am surprised that you don't even grasp the most basic tenant of investing--- that's there's ALWAYS a trade off between risk and return. I know its easy to look at a chart in hindsight and see how "easy" it is to rack up massive profits with very limited risk-- doing so in real time is a completely different story---I have no interest in exposing anyone as anything, just want to make clear that your claims have no basis in market reality. surf
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Absolutely agree on risk. When I say over 20% consistently it's assumed by default that maximum PTTDD never exceeds that same 20% as well (actually I have agreement with almost all clients that if we ever plunge 30% then just say good bye for a whole program as flawed and failed).

I didn't even mention that, because I am generally very risk averse (have never blew up really) and it's like common sense that returns only make sense if your actual draw-down is correspondingly adequate and not outrageous.

As for hindsight vs. reality, here I tell you that you can always try and see for yourself. Never hindsight, only brutally real, as real as it can ever be - actual executions on actual live account with futures clearing firm opened in your name with full access to statements/reports etc.

So if you ever decide you want that proof, just let me know. :)
 
Holy Smokes! just got back from the beach, and am quite surprised to see the DJIA to have pushed close to our top call of 15542---I have learned not to micro manage or even watch these longer term positions play out--- as it does zero good--- will close this long if 15542 is hit------

surf
 
Quote from Josef K:

Maybe you should ask Steve Tvardek.



http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=258516
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He is an excellent trader, no doubt-- but he is taking risks to produce large gains. Don't kid yourself.


I agree, with prop firm leverage and prop edges it can be done consistently-- but still, not without equal risk---- i am talking about at home, non firm affilated traders when I state I have never seen it and don't believe it.

surf
 
Quote from marketsurfer:

Holy Smokes! just got back from the beach, and am quite surprised to see the DJIA to have pushed close to our top call of 15542---I have learned not to micro manage or even watch these longer term positions play out--- as it does zero good--- will close this long if 15542 is hit------

surf
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I think you got the TA boys for company on this one. Don't worry, we won't hold that against you. :D

http://www.futuresmag.com/2013/05/2...utm_campaign=FUT_eNL&_LID=276018&t=financials
 
Quote from marketsurfer:

i am talking about at home, non firm affilated traders when I state I have never seen it and don't believe it.
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So far no TopStep success stories of the caliber you are looking for. They reportedly do have some profitable traders--- but none yet in the six figure or high five figure earning categories.

Their target demographic is the at-home non firm affiliated traders you speak of, so this is something to keep an eye on as it gives some real world insight into how doable a goal this is. As you know, anonymous internet claims are not always reliable. :D
 
Quote from Ol' Yella:

So far no TopStep success stories of the caliber you are looking for. They reportedly do have some profitable traders--- but none yet in the six figure or high five figure earning categories.

Their target demographic is the at-home non firm affiliated traders you speak of, so this is something to keep an eye on as it gives some real world insight into how doable a goal this is. As you know, anonymous internet claims are not always reliable. :D
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No doubt they have profitable traders---but I doubt any are earning 20% or more overall annually on the alloted capital----

has anyone on elite actually earned a funded account from topstep? I know NONE of the big mouth TA dreamers were even brave enough to try---- all i heard was excuses. surf
 
Quote from R. Raskolnikov:

You first have to define "very limited risk" for me so that I can give you a better answer
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I do know it involves not using stops to obtain maximum performance of any system--- therefore when i hear about stops and big returns-- I know its a false belief based on quantative studies indicating the opposite---

This is what i call "feel good" trading philosophy absent of proven evidence. It is very dangerous to rely on feel good ideas when in the market.

No, the facts prove this to be inaccurate. While it sounds good and smart, research proves it not to be true. My old firm studied a sample of 200,000 trades using stops at 1%, 2%, 5% etc and at every stop level, the percentage of winners decreased and the the expected return dropped --- How do you justify your statements when quantative facts reveal the opposite? Stops basically guarantee that you WILL LOCK IN LOSSES-----nothing more. surf
 
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