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Spydertrader's Jack Hershey Futures Trading Journal
- Thread starter Spydertrader
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It was the same idea I've tried to illustrate yesterday: entering close to LTL on decreasing volume, as signal of change. In this case I'm talking about the down retrace's LTL going into the up channel's RTL (or fan-out RTL).
5 min ES: after a small VE on relatively normal volume, the volume seems to stop increasing, as a first step (prv wise) toward decreasing; the price is inside the down channel
1 min ES: the trend of the green volume bars in the white highlight is up (see the green arrow), while the trend of the red volume bars is generally down (red arrow); the :23 green volume bar was larger than any of the following three red bars; the current bar PRV indicates DU (although early in its filling)
2 min YM: current prv seems low (maybe even DU), while price retraced to and still stays close to RTL (down channel)
I've just recently started to trade this way, and still hesitate, which is proven by the short wash trade that followed.
EDIT: Re-reading my reply and your post, I noticed I haven't answered your last sentence: entering earlier it is actually less risky because the distance from your entry and the place where price shouldn't go is smaller.
5 min ES: after a small VE on relatively normal volume, the volume seems to stop increasing, as a first step (prv wise) toward decreasing; the price is inside the down channel
1 min ES: the trend of the green volume bars in the white highlight is up (see the green arrow), while the trend of the red volume bars is generally down (red arrow); the :23 green volume bar was larger than any of the following three red bars; the current bar PRV indicates DU (although early in its filling)
2 min YM: current prv seems low (maybe even DU), while price retraced to and still stays close to RTL (down channel)
I've just recently started to trade this way, and still hesitate, which is proven by the short wash trade that followed.
EDIT: Re-reading my reply and your post, I noticed I haven't answered your last sentence: entering earlier it is actually less risky because the distance from your entry and the place where price shouldn't go is smaller.
Quote from Pr0crast:
Nice series of posts! I'm with you all the way except for on this one... Was a little confused at your thought process, and have some questions.
What reason did you have to go long? I would understand a long shortly after this, but based on the info available here it would be cool if you'd expound on what lead you to that decision. It looks like you are trying to get in on the move before it has even begun.
Quote from cnms2:
Actually the pt3 entry, and especially the RTL break exit, when applied on any fractals above tapes, isn't a panacea. Jack wrote that the way to trade is on the long diagonal of the parallelogram, the LTL of the old channel to the LTL of the new channel. The farther from these points you trade the more money you leave on the table, and in a way the riskier it is.
I have no idea what you're trying to say.
Try dumbing it down a little..
LOL....
Ok, that's what I figured you were saying.
However, it has nothing to do with the context of Bundle's frustration with using a pt3 entry/RTL exit, using forest level rules.
Granted, your example is an ideal situation, but I think it assumes a skill level beyond what many here are capable of displaying, myself included. Essentially, it assumes a SCT skill level set.
Ok, that's what I figured you were saying.
However, it has nothing to do with the context of Bundle's frustration with using a pt3 entry/RTL exit, using forest level rules.
Granted, your example is an ideal situation, but I think it assumes a skill level beyond what many here are capable of displaying, myself included. Essentially, it assumes a SCT skill level set.
This means I didn't understand your question. Could you please rephrase it?
Quote from Haroki:
LOL....
Ok, that's what I figured you were saying.
However, it has nothing to do with the context of Bundle's frustration with using a pt3 entry/RTL exit, using forest level rules.
Granted, your example is an ideal situation, but I think it assumes a skill level beyond what many here are capable of displaying, myself included. Essentially, it assumes a SCT skill level set.
with the finer tool set, all the signals are there for you to exploit.Quote from Haroki:
LOL....
Ok, that's what I figured you were saying.
However, it has nothing to do with the context of Bundle's frustration with using a pt3 entry/RTL exit, using forest level rules.
Granted, your example is an ideal situation, but I think it assumes a skill level beyond what many here are capable of displaying, myself included. Essentially, it assumes a SCT skill level set.
Quote from cnms2:
Actually the pt3 entry, and especially the RTL break exit, when applied on any fractals above tapes, isn't a panacea. Jack wrote that the way to trade is on the long diagonal of the parallelogram, the LTL of the old channel to the LTL of the new channel. The farther from these points you trade the more money you leave on the table, and in a way the riskier it is.
The difficulty with this in terms of entries is that pt3's are a lot easier to identify in a timely manner than FTTs because of the lower volume and pace (usually, sometimes an FTT is obvious) . So risk is reintroduced in the greater chance of making a mistake.
This is FTT - FTT trading. It is more advanced than the "beginner FTT" trading originally discussed because one doesn't exit on the FBO.Quote from Haroki:
LOL....
Ok, that's what I figured you were saying.
However, it has nothing to do with the context of Bundle's frustration with using a pt3 entry/RTL exit, using forest level rules.
Granted, your example is an ideal situation, but I think it assumes a skill level beyond what many here are capable of displaying, myself included. Essentially, it assumes a SCT skill level set.
Bundle and others have lost the context of Spyder's change to beginner Pt3 entry, RTL exit rules. This change was for training purposes because we were having trouble with the FTT's.
One practices the Forest trades (paper/sim/observation) with the assumption that the perfect point 3 entry was made even if the real entry was a mile away. The trades are managed as such to learn to hone down the point 3 entry skills and follow the rules without looking at the P&L. The P&L will likely do well only on trend days until the entries are mastered.
BTW, good stuff cnms2, thanks
Quote from cnms2:
This means I didn't understand your question. Could you please rephrase it?
I didn't have a question, other than what you were saying about trading the long diagonal.
I'm trying, in my own pitiful way, to help Bundle trade and lose the frustration about this by giving him a modification to his understanding of the rule set that will work for him.
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