Sound like Christians to me.

Quote from rcanfiel:

If you close your eyes and put your hands over your ears, you won't have to deal with the truth.
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Leave Cache alone. Deal with me.

I am the truth, the way, and the life.

Ignore it at your own experience.

The blind cannot lead the blind.

You must clear your sight before you can clear the sight of another.

You have made an idol of the bible, and it is blinding you.

You have set it up as a defense against the truth.

Such is this world, a fortress to defend a false sense of self against the truth of who you are.



Jesus
 
Quote from Cache Landing:

Put "us" on ignore? Who is this "us" you are referring to? With the rest of the participants of this thread I'm having a simple discussion. I would understand if they have already put you on ignore.

"your words: I'm not the only one here calling you irrational, or do you just have any remarks that aren't from me put to ignore."

You should realize that the title "elder" in the mormon church refers to one who is sent forth to preach of Christ. It doesn't by any means imply that they know everything there is to know.

From http://www.meetmormonmissionaries.org/mormon_dictionary ef.html
Elder: 1) A title used in addressing Apostles of the Mormon Church; 2) a title used in addressing full-time male missionaries of the Church since the office they hold is that of elder; 3) an office in the Melchizedek Priesthood which has the power and responsibility to bestow the Holy Ghost, and lead the Church in spiritual matters. Elders are particularly responsible for the welfare of Church members and serve as home teachers to the membership.

When I say "trinity", I am referring to the explanation of the godhead as found in the Nicene and Athanasian creeds. I thought that was obvious. You are again implying that your interpretation of those verses is accurate beyond debate. My interpretation says that they are one in every significant way, except that they are three distinct beings. The bible backs up my interpretation just as well. Yet somehow I am ignoring scriptures?

There is no debate. The Hebrew and Greek are distinctly clear in that they are ONE. That they are "one in every significant way" is doublespeak. The Trinity as held by Christianity is that they are 3 and yet one INSEPARABLE being - we canot fathom it. Mormonism only acepts that they are 3 distinct personages. Another example that Mormonism is a human institution that rejects scripture and remains completely apart from the Living God.

Do me a favor. Make a single statement about one of your beliefs that you'd like me to agree with, other than the trinity because that topic has been beat to death.

I have no interest in others agreeing to what I believe. I don't try to have "beliefs." The scripture is the sole means of divine truth and grace. I seek to understand it, We are supposed to be sheep, listening and following the masters' voice. Not people who try to reshape God's mercy to our own purpose. What the world thinks or believes or wants is of no concern or interest to me.

You have pretty much ignored most other things, in response to your own questions. They are all there, on preceding pages. Dancing around scriptural truths via Mormon interpretations. That Joseph Smith is a false prophet and therefore the entier Mormon institution is false. That the Mormon 13-point statement you put out contains significant amounts of unscriptural content. 9 examples that Mormonism does not adhere to scriptural truth.

I guess you must be a Mormon elder too. Take a high title in the church, but have no clue how to defend what you believe to others, no matter how unscriptural it is...

BTW, what church do you identify with?

conservative Presbyterian. Calvinist/Reformed theology. Based on the doctrinal views of Calvin and other reformers.
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Rcanfiel,

Since Chuck.ells quoted him I now realize that I have one member on ET on my ignore list. I have never found anything he has to say, worth the time it takes to read it. Other than that one person, I have no other members on ignore.

I read back through the posts and realized that there is a comment by fhl that I missed as it was drowned out by others. I think for the most part I already backed up why I believe that we can become like God.

We were created in the image of God and Paul states that we are heirs of God and joint-heirs of Christ. There are numerous places that state we are the children of God. If we are children of God, and Christ is a son of God, that would make us brothers. In the same manner, I believe that Lucifer was another spirit son of God who aspired to be greater than God and take away the agency of man. If lucifer was a son of God then by default that would make him a spirit brother of Christ.

Isaiah 14:12
How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning!
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As pertaining to Jesus following the example of the Father.

John 5:19
Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.
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In any case, rcanfiel, do you really expect me to have a discussion with you when you make statements like, "What the world thinks or believes or wants is of no concern or interest to me". Then you won't even state any of your beliefs for me to study?

You don't seek to discuss. You seek to argue and to prove something that has been debated for centuries and is beyond proof. Yet you claim that it cannot be debated. The fact that it is debated is proof that it is debateable.

Wallet has the right idea. Ask a single question if you'd like a discussion. Wait for the answer, after which you might feel required to provide a concise rebuttal. Posting a deluge of cut and paste articles from anti-mormon websites is complete nonsense. I can post hundreds of links to anti-christian websites attempting to disprove Christianity. Does that make Christianity any less true?
 
Quote from Cache Landing:

Wallet has the right idea. Ask a single question if you'd like a discussion. Wait for the answer, after which you might feel required to provide a concise rebuttal.
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You have ignored each reply to your own posted positions. This is not rocket science. You say something. I respond. You ignore. But if you must, I will start again with what I said before.

POST ONE, RESPONSE TO YOUR MORMON ARTICLES OF FAITH & HOW THEY CONTRADICT THE BIBLE.
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Quote from Cache Landing:

Here is a copy of the mormon "Articles of Faith", which we refer to as the fundamental beliefs of the church. Feel free to discuss how these contradict the bible.

1 We believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost.

2 We believe that men will be punished for their own sins, and not for Adam’s transgression.

That depends on how you look at it. Adam&Eve brought death onto the human race. It is called Original Sin. Before this, all people were pure before God.

3 We believe that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel.

WHAT? "It is by grace you are saved and not through works." The determination of whether people were true believers or not was known since before the foundation of the world

EPHESIANS 2:
3Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in the heavenly realms with every spiritual blessing in Christ. 4For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love 5he predestined us to be adopted as his sons through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will— 6to the praise of his glorious grace, which he has freely given us in the One he loves. 7In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, in accordance with the riches of God's grace 8that he lavished on us with all wisdom and understanding. 9And he made known to us the mystery of his will according to his good pleasure, which he purposed in Christ, 10to be put into effect when the times will have reached their fulfillment—to bring all things in heaven and on earth together under one head, even Christ.
11 In him we were also chosen, having been predestined according to the plan of him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will, 12in order that we, who were the first to hope in Christ, might be for the praise of his glory.[/B]


4 We believe that the first principles and ordinances of the Gospel are: first, Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ; second, Repentance; third, Baptism by immersion for the remission of sins; fourth, Laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost.
5 We believe that a man must be called of God, by prophecy, and by the laying on of hands by those who are in authority, to preach the Gospel and administer in the ordinances thereof.

WRONG. All true believers have authority from God without intervention from any person: 1 Peter 2:9 But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people belonging to God, that you may declare the praises of him who called you out of darkness into his wonderful light.

6 We believe in the same organization that existed in the Primitive Church, namely, apostles, prophets, pastors, teachers, evangelists, and so forth.
7 We believe in the gift of tongues, prophecy, revelation, visions, healing, interpretation of tongues, and so forth.
8 We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly; we also believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God.

Show me the scripture that says anything about "correct translation of the Bible."

And speaking of that, show me anything in the scripture that points to the Book of Mormon, which is a reprehensible document that violates and perverts the things of God. It is without need, and was written by a circus performer. It has misled millions away from the true calling of God.

9 We believe all that God has revealed, all that He does now reveal, and we believe that He will yet reveal many great and important things pertaining to the Kingdom of God.
10 We believe in the literal agathering of Israel and in the restoration of the Ten Tribes; that Zion (the New Jerusalem) will be built upon the American continent; that Christ will reign personally upon the earth; and, that the earth will be renewed and receive its paradisiacal glory.

Show the scripture that says the New Jerusalem will be in America. The scripture makes it perfectly clear than the heavens and earth will be swept away. There will be a new heaven and new earth. Try reading Revelation, and put down the peepstones.

11 We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.
12 We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law.
13 We believe in being honest, true, chaste, benevolent, virtuous, and in doing good to all men; indeed, we may say that we follow the admonition of Paul—We believe all things, we hope all things, we have endured many things, and hope to be able to endure all things. If there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy, we seek after these things.
 
Quote from Cache Landing:

I think for the most part I already backed up why I believe that we can become like God.

We were created in the image of God and Paul states that we are heirs of God and joint-heirs of Christ. There are numerous places that state we are the children of God. If we are children of God, and Christ is a son of God, that would make us brothers. In the same manner, I believe that Lucifer was another spirit son of God who aspired to be greater than God and take away the agency of man. If lucifer was a son of God then by default that would make him a spirit brother of Christ.
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The Mormons lead in the approach to this truth.

The truth is all will return to their place as God created them.

Bodily existence in time and form is an anomaly.

What does not return is the artificial thinking mechanism that makes this world.

It's "life" lasts only as long as time. It makes time, and keeps it.

Bodies are machines born of this thinking mechanism.

This thinking mechanism is the proverbial "devil".

It's laws and dictates are embedded in all body-mind concepts as ego...the individualized sense of "I".

As each Son of God lays down his ego, the "devil" and his works are unraveled.

As he does so, he will find that his status as the Son of God has never changed a bit.

The thinking that builds this world is foreign in heaven. It is not how God thinks.

It is egotistical to denigrate your identity to something less than Christ, the Son of God.

Ego is all about small. It can only allow largess by comparison.

Christ is about magnitude...in the image of God.

It's not about evolving, spiritually or otherwise.

It's about returning to who you have always been. This is the "inheritance" of the Son of God. It can never be sold, or given away, or changed. It is.

Lucifer is a symbol of the Son of God, shining bright, then falling into ego based thought patterns.

He will return to himself.

That will be the second coming.

There is a light beyond the body.

If you cannot see it, you see the work of the devil instead.

It's up to you what you see: devil or Christ.



Jesus
 
Quote from Cache Landing

Then you won't even state any of your beliefs for me to study?

This is about 98% of "my beliefs", including scripture proofs.

http://www.reformed.org/documents/wcf_with_proofs/

As I said, what the world thinks or believes is irrelevant to me. I am tasked to be a witness to truth. If you were the same, you would run screaming away from false doctrines, instead of spreading them. I will stand before God on the Last Day, not in front of those who think they can play with Truth.

Revelation 19:9-15
Then the angel said to me, "Write: 'Blessed are those who are invited to the wedding supper of the Lamb!' " And he added, "These are the true words of God." At this I fell at his feet to worship him. But he said to me, "Do not do it! I am a fellow servant with you and with your brothers who hold to the testimony of Jesus. Worship God! For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy."

I saw heaven standing open and there before me was a white horse, whose rider is called Faithful and True. With justice he judges and makes war. His eyes are like blazing fire, and on his head are many crowns. He has a name written on him that no one knows but he himself. He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and his name is the Word of God. The armies of heaven were following him, riding on white horses and dressed in fine linen, white and clean. Out of his mouth comes a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations. "He will rule them with an iron scepter." He treads the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God Almighty.

Joseph Smith, the false prophet, and his peepstone-laden hat, who has deceived millions, thinking that someday he will become a god, will instead be trying to outrun an infinite bath of flames, sulfur and brimstone.

Those who manipulate or monkey with the Word of God are without hope. The following was NOT sourced from the book of peepstones, nor did it originate from golden plates:

Revelation 22:7-19
"Behold, I am coming soon! Blessed is he who keeps the words of the prophecy in this book." I, John, am the one who heard and saw these things. And when I had heard and seen them, I fell down to worship at the feet of the angel who had been showing them to me. But he said to me, "Do not do it! I am a fellow servant with you and with your brothers the prophets and of all who keep the words of this book. Worship God!"

Then he told me, "Do not seal up the words of the prophecy of this book, because the time is near. Let him who does wrong continue to do wrong; let him who is vile continue to be vile; let him who does right continue to do right; and let him who is holy continue to be holy." "Behold, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to everyone according to what he has done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.

"Blessed are those who wash their robes, that they may have the right to the tree of life and may go through the gates into the city. Outside are the dogs, those who practice magic arts, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters and everyone who loves and practices falsehood.

"I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star." The Spirit and the bride say, "Come!" And let him who hears say, "Come!" Whoever is thirsty, let him come; and whoever wishes, let him take the free gift of the water of life.

I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book. And if anyone takes words away from this book of prophecy, God will take away from him his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.
 
So it's just one christian arguing their form of christianity is christian, whilst another christian argues it isn't.
One Truth out of many Truths believes they are the only Truth, because they interptet the same folk lore differently.

Tantamount to a Cinderella supporter and King Arthur apologist, each arguing theirs is the only one True fairy tale.
 
Quote from stu:

So it's just one christian arguing their form of christianity is christian, whilst another christian argues it isn't.
One Truth out of many Truths believes they are the only Truth, because they interptet the same folk lore differently.

Tantamount to a Cinderella supporter and King Arthur apologist, each arguing theirs is the only one True fairy tale.
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If you are talking about what people argue over based on opinion, I would agree.

But this argument is irrelevant in the spiritual domain. God either is or He isn't, as according to His revealed will, as reflected in a particular religion's scriptural document.

If He is, then what people think is vastly limited and mortal, and their beliefs are no more founded than what they think 11 dimensional space must be like. They just cannot understand it on their own
 
Quote from stu:

Tantamount to a Cinderella supporter and King Arthur apologist, each arguing theirs is the only one True fairy tale.
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Cooincidently, both have arranged their electronic perceptual filters that my posts cannot even be seen, let alone considered.

The Truth
 
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