Sound like Christians to me.

[Cache Landing]

Quote from fhl:

The old testament is not to be discarded. It says that "God is one" in Deut.

Beyond that,

"The Mormon Church teaches that there was a great and total apostasy of the Church as established by Jesus Christ; this state of apostasy "still prevails except among those who have come to a knowledge of the restored gospel" of the Mormon Church (Gospel Principles, pp. 105-106; Mormon Doctrine, p. 44).

If the Mormon Church believes it is the only true Christian Church, it should not attempt to publicly present itself as a part of a broader Christian community. Instead it should tell the world openly that those who claim to be orthodox Christians are not really Christians at all, and that the Mormon Church is the only true Christian Church. This in fact is what it teaches privately, but not publicly." from http://www.irr.org/mit/Is-Mormonism-Christian.html

I don't know why you think that they teach only privately that they are the only true church. Click on the link from the original post and read some of the talks from the general conference. If memory serves, almost every one of them makes a statement to that effect. The general conference is broadcast throughout the world to anyone who wants to watch it. Mormons are not at all shy about claiming to be the only Christian church with God's authority.

The LDS church does not teach that other Christians aren't Christian. They actually commend them for their belief in Christ. Albeit, they still don't have the authority to act in God's name.

As to your reference in Deut. There are a few verses that use a similar phrase. Many have taken these as confirmation of the trinitarian God. My understanding of them is that they are refering to the unity of purpose and action. If you read the original post it explains that they are believed to be undivided and unified in every way, except that they are seperate beings. This unity is what makes Christ our savior. He acted perfectly in conjunction with the will of the Father. Still, these few verses should not be used to discount more than 100 others that make reference to the seperateness of their beings.

 

[Cache Landing]

Quote from maxpi:

Mormons are comical really. They start newbies off with a story about how Jesus and Lucifer are equals but with different plans for redemption for people and then years later the members go through a ceremony where they swear allegiance to Lucifer!! Masonics do the same thing, they get to 30th degree and then they are asked to swear allegiance to Lucifer, if they refuse they are told that it was a test and they passed but after that they are never asked to go higher in the organization... to me Mormons are an offshoot of Masonicism...

What's comical is that you actually believed someone when they told you that mormons are eventially sent through a ceremony where they swear allegiance to Satan.

Also funny is the fact that I heard the same rumor from an unknowledgeable mormon about members of the Catholic church. "Yeah, didn't you know? Once Catholics make it far enough the leaders tell them they have to swear allegience to Satan to get more power." I told him he was wrong and said it is what I call a faith promoting rumor. These rumors are spread by ordinary people. They aren't promulgated by the leaders of either church. The fact that people actually believe them and spread them is funny.

Truth be told, there are very few similarities between masons and mormons. Indeed there are just as many (if not more) similarities between mormons and certain sects of Buddhism. Does that mean that the LDS church is a spinoff of Buddhism?

 

[rcanfiel]

Quote from Cache Landing:

Since you are such an expert on the Book of Mormon, I welcome you to propose to me, which teachings of that book don't jive with the Old-New Testament, and we can discuss those passages if you'd like.

Marvelous. Let's start with the anchor of the LDS, Joseph Smith. We will look at the historical record. Truly a stable, reliable chararcter who deserves the highest respect (NOT):

Smith reported that, at the age of 14 (or thereabouts), he experienced a theophany, referred to by Latter Day Saints as the First Vision. Smith recorded several accounts of the vision later in life.

Smith reports he was concerned as to the correct church to join, and went to a grove of trees to pray. As he did, he saw God the Father and his Son, Jesus Christ, appear to him as two separate, glorious, resurrected beings (in other accounts, they are described as heavenly beings). They told him that none of the churches established at the time were correct, and so he should join none of them.

...

He also lived during what has been described as a "treasure hunting craze", and prior to his ministry he was employed as part of a company who attempted to find buried treasure in various areas of western New York.

In March 1826, Smith was convicted after an alleged admission to being a "disorderly person" and an "impostor" in a court in Bainbridge, New York. In court documents Smith was described as a 'Glass Looker' for using his peep stone to locate buried treasure in exchange for fees. It was during this time period when Smith was involved in 'glass looking' that he is said to have discovered the buried golden tablets...

Smith and his wife moved to Harmony, Pennsylvania, with the monetary and moral support of a wealthy Palmyra neighbor named Martin Harris. In Harmony, Smith reported to a few family members and colleagues including Harris that he had translated some of the Reformed Egyptian text from the Golden plates.

According to Smith's history, he invited Harris to take a sample of the characters from the plates to a few well-known scholars including Charles Anthon. Harris returned to report that Anthon initially provided authentication to the translation of the Reformed Egyptian, but tore up his written statement upon hearing the story of how Joseph had obtained them. Harris returned, and acted as Smith's scribe while Smith translated words using the peep stone in his hat

Oliver Cowdery, a local school teacher who had taken an interest in Smith's story began acting as scribe. However, Smith would not allow Cowdery, Emma or other scribes to see or touch the golden plates which he kept hidden in the woods even while translating (although Cowdery and Harris later became two of the Three Witnesses to the plates)...

On April 6, 1830, this church was formally organized, and small branches were soon set up in Palmyra, Fayette, and Colesville, New York. There was strong local opposition to these branches, however, and Smith soon dictated a revelation that the church would establish a "City of Zion" in Native American lands near Missouri

the construction of the temple, in addition to other ventures of Smith's, left him and the Church in deep debt. To raise money, Smith planned a banking institution, which was called the Kirtland Safety Society. The State of Ohio denied Smith a charter to legally operate a bank causing Smith to rename the company under the advice of non-Mormon legal counsel as 'The Kirkland AntiBanking Safety Society' and he continued to operate the bank and print notes. The bank collapsed after 21 days of operation in January. During this time, Smith and his associates were accused of illegal and unethical actions. In the wake of this bank failure, many Mormons, including prominent leaders, became disaffected with Smith, who had backed the venture and is alleged to have prophesied it would become the largest bank on earth.

Eventually, lawsuits and indictments against Smith and his banking partners became so severe that, on January 12, 1838, Smith and Rigdon left Kirtland by dark of night for the Far West settlement in Caldwell County, Missouri. At the time, there were at least $6,100 in civil suits outstanding against him in Chardon, Ohio courts, and an arrest warrant had been issued for Smith on a charge of bank fraud

Many exaggerated reports of a battle (some claimed that half of the militia's men had been lost, when in fact they had suffered only one casualty), as well as affidavits by ex-Mormons that Mormons were planning to burn both Liberty and Richmond, Missouri, made their way to Missouri Governor Lilburn Boggs. Smith is reported to have stated.: I will be to this generation a second Muhammed, whose motto in treating for peace was "the Alcoran (Koran) or the sword." So shall it eventually be with us, "Joseph Smith or the sword!"...

In Nauvoo, Smith taught doctrines he believed were practiced in the early Christian church such as Baptism for the dead. He also introduced other teachings and ordinances such as the Endowment, and "the principle" of plural marriage neither of which are found in mainstream Christianity

In February, 1844, Smith announced his candidacy for President of the United States, with Sidney Rigdon as his vice-presidential running mate. ...

As the mob burst through the doorway, Joseph Smith (who had earlier been given a six-shooter by a visitor) managed to fire three shots at the mob. His brother Hyrum Smith died immediately from the shot in the face. Taylor was shot several times, but survived. One of the bullets hit his pocket watch, saving his life. Richards was unharmed. Smith ran to the open window, where he was shot multiple times simultaneously (both from within the room and from the outside), and fell from the window, dead. Upon falling to the ground, he was shot several more times. Mormons view his death as martyrdom...

He (Smith) believed in other scripture, and that in some instances, the Bible was translated incorrectly. Thus, he "restored" temples, orders of priesthood, and other elements of the Bible that he felt had been wrongly abandoned by mainstream Christianity as part of a Great Apostasy. Much of this "restoration" is presented in the Doctrine and Covenants, which is described as modern scripture.

In many cases, Smith's doctrines or interpretations of the Bible, as well as his own revelations, placed him at odds with mainstream Christianity.

 

[fhl]

Quote from Cache Landing:

I don't know why you think that they teach only privately that they are the only true church. Click on the link from the original post and read some of the talks from the general conference. If memory serves, almost every one of them makes a statement to that effect. The general conference is broadcast throughout the world to anyone who wants to watch it. Mormons are not at all shy about claiming to be the only Christian church with God's authority.

The LDS church does not teach that other Christians aren't Christian. They actually commend them for their belief in Christ. Albeit, they still don't have the authority to act in God's name.

As to your reference in Deut. There are a few verses that use a similar phrase. Many have taken these as confirmation of the trinitarian God. My understanding of them is that they are refering to the unity of purpose and action. If you read the original post it explains that they are believed to be undivided and unified in every way, except that they are seperate beings. This unity is what makes Christ our savior. He acted perfectly in conjunction with the will of the Father. Still, these few verses should not be used to discount more than 100 others that make reference to the seperateness of their beings.

There are many differences between what traditional Christianity believes and what Mormons believe. You can simply read the article that I referenced. They seem to be mutually exclusive, and I don't know how one can believe otherwise.

Your apparently do, and maybe others do as well, but most of us do not. Sorry.

 

[Cache Landing]

Quote from rcanfiel:

Marvelous. Let's start with the anchor of the LDS, Joseph Smith.......

Wow!

I request a passage from the Book of Mormon that you say doesn't jive with the Bible, and you post an update on the history of the church, as seen by someone who hates the church.

To your credit though, you did make reference to a couple points of doctrine taught by the LDS church that aren't practiced by mainstream Christianity.

Mormons do believe that everyone needs to be baptized by someone having the proper authority. They also believe that God provides for those who didn't get baptized while alive to still have the opportunity if they accept it. Personally I think it odd that other Christian churches don't teach the doctrine of proxy baptism (baptism for the dead).

1 Cor. 15:29

"Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?"

 

[Cache Landing]

Quote from fhl:

There are many differences between what traditional Christianity believes and what Mormons believe. You can simply read the article that I referenced. They seem to be mutually exclusive, and I don't know how one can believe otherwise.

Your apparently do, and maybe others do as well, but most of us do not. Sorry.

I'm not claiming that there aren't differences in doctrine. Only that the differences don't disqualify them from being called Christians. Many would argue that mormons are actually closer to Christianity as taught in the Bible than many other mainstream sects.

 

[Turok]

fhl:
>There are many differences between what traditional
>Christianity believes and what Mormons believe. You
>can simply read the article that I referenced. They
>seem to be mutually exclusive, and I don't know how
>one can believe otherwise.

To demonstrate how absurd the above statement is, I will create an equal statement substituting a couple well known "christian" groups.

"There are many differences between what traditional protestants believe and what catholics believe. They seem to be mutually exclusive, and I don't know how one can believe otherwise."

Just because two competing doctrines are "mutually exclusive" doesn't mean that both aren't "christian". The catholics and the protestants can't even agree on the most fundamental of all christian tenets -- the path to salvation. The two respective paths chosen be these groups are so exclusive that they doom the other group to eternal hell. Apparently in spite if this major delta of death, they (most) happily consider each other christians. Pretty amazing considering your "most don't consider mormons christians" position.

BTW, most of what is in that posted article you referenced can be directly contradicted by the scripture itself -- it's just amazing to watch religions, *any religion*, attempt to make the claim that they have the golden interpretation and all the others are hogwash.

JB

 

[Cache Landing]

Interesting though, that they all team up against the mormons. They damn each other to hell for centuries and then suddenly make friends to attack the mormons. All the while saying that the other is still going to hell. But it's ok that you are still going to hell as long as you help us attack the mormons.

Also interesting is that of the group, the mormons are the ones teaching that God provided a means for the others to make it to heaven.

Rather than actually learning what the mormons teach, and heaven forbid actually attending one of their meetings, it is probably better to look up incredibly biased anti-mormon websites that talk about making pacts with lucifer etc. Because if it is on the internet it must be true.

But there is no possible way that I could learn anything about the mormon church by visiting its official website.

 

[chuck.ells]

Quote from Cache Landing:

Interesting though, that they all team up against the mormons.

Interesting? Hardly, more like anticipated.
With a sweeping statements like
"The Mormon Church teaches that there was a great and total apostasy of the Church as established by Jesus Christ; this state of apostasy "still prevails except among those who have come to a knowledge of the restored gospel" of the Mormon Church (Gospel Principles, pp. 105-106; Mormon Doctrine, p. 44).
And
“ Mormons are not at all shy about claiming to be the only Christian church with God's authority. “

How could any fool, mormon or nonmormon not anticipate a back lash from the greater “Christian” community?
Humanity tends to jealously guard their own brand of fiction .

 

[hoodooman]

I had a good friend who was a mormon and one day I asked him why? He replied that he joined the church because if anything ever happened to him, the church would take care of his wife and five children.

I don't know if that is true or not but if it is then its the only good reason that I know of for joining the lds.