socialized medicine

[fhl]

"Under Britain's National Health Service, smokers in Manchester have been denied treatment for heart disease, and the obese in Suffolk are refused hip and knee replacements. Patricia Hewitt, the health secretary, says that it's appropriate to decline treatment on the basis of "lifestyle choices."


No choice. That's the gist of socialized health care. What do you suppose the studies did with these people. I WILL GUARANTEE YOU THEY SIMPLY IGNORED THEM. NOT PART OF THE STUDIES. If they were denied health care, then "you can't say that the health care they were delivered was inadequate."

 

[neophyte321]

Quote from acronym:

Dude, your the one who was bleating about how great things were, or are.

You were bloody wrong.

Got that? Bloody wrong, just bullshit statistics, your a halfwit, GET BENT.

The insurance "industry" is the GREATEST cause of illness, ever-why? Their the ONLY people, with a vested interest, in denying claims, covering up liability, lyeing to the public, denying the real factors behind social security, with the full support of the governement, (entirely faith based, BTW) so -given , its unlikely anyone in living memory has ever SEEN a real insurance statistic, do you STILL think, your crap should still wash?

obviously it's anecdotal, but doesn't hoodooman experiences detailed in this very thread directly contradict your argument ?


he recevied unnecessary treatment after unnecessary treatment, which he attributes to the doctors' love of money regardless of how it destroys their patients ... hippocratic oath, what?!



don't worry boys-and-girls, the greying boomers are in charge, they will Not Be Denied Their Free Care!

 

[gblnking]

Hate to say it but my health care claims have never been denied. In some companies I've worked for the health care coverage was terrible and in some companies it's been great. It's one of the factors that I decide on when interviewing for a new job. I think the problem is more that the individuals have to think for themselves if they want a job that pays better and has less benefits or the other way. I personally took a job that wasn't at the top of my wage expectations because they offered good benefits for my family.
Maybe if more people took the time to figure out what they're getting then they would have better insurance. But then again that would require people to think for themselves. Well at least if we had socialized medical insurance then nobody would have to make intelligent decisions anymore. For me I’ll stick with the good ol’ USA. I like having my own choices. (And teeth that aren’t rotted out)

 

[ZZZzzzzzzz]

How come I don't see Israel at the top of that list...

LOL!

Quote from dddooo:

Unfortunately it's not that hard:

The World Health Organization's ranking of the world's health systems

1 France
2 Italy
...
18 United Kingdom
...
30 Canada
...
36 Costa Rica
37 United States of America
38 Slovenia
39 Cuba
http://www.photius.com/rankings/healthranks.html


and here is another study:

May 16, 2007

"Despite having the most costly health system in the world, the United States consistently underperforms on most dimensions of performance, relative to other countries."

http://www.commonwealthfund.org/publications/publications_show.htm?doc_id=482678

 

[dddooo]

Quote from gblnking:

Hate to say it but my health care claims have never been denied. In some companies I've worked for the health care coverage was terrible and in some companies it's been great. It's one of the factors that I decide on when interviewing for a new job. I think the problem is more that the individuals have to think for themselves if they want a job that pays better and has less benefits or the other way. I personally took a job that wasn't at the top of my wage expectations because they offered good benefits for my family.
Maybe if more people took the time to figure out what they're getting then they would have better insurance. But then again that would require people to think for themselves. Well at least if we had socialized medical insurance then nobody would have to make intelligent decisions anymore. For me I’ll stick with the good ol’ USA. I like having my own choices. (And teeth that aren’t rotted out)

Of course if you pay through the roof you can get a decent coverage in this country, this is not in dispute. First of all we're all paying at least twice as much as anyone else in the world, in your case you actually had to give up a part of your salary to get a better coverage so in essence you're paying even more. Your coverage has never been denied but it ends up costing you 2-3 times as much as it costs the residents of France or Italy whose coverage has never been denied either and who get the same or better quality care.

And did you ever consider what will happen to your family if lose your job and get sick at the same time? Nothing will happen to the french or Italian family, yours will be financially ruined. There is absolutely no reason to pay twice as much, get on average mediocre service (OK your coverage is better than average but it costs you even more) and risk to lose it if you have an employment problem. There is absolutely no financial, business or any other reason to get Health Coverage through employment either. It was an accident in the first place when during WWII employers were not allowed to increase salaries so they started offering benefits in order to attract talent.

 

[gblnking]

Not really sure where in my post I stated exactly how much I pay for insurance. My cost is very minimal compared to the portion that my employer covers.
I guess that growing up in the United States I just don't get it. I was taught that a man works to provide for his family. He makes sure there is food on the table, a roof over their heads, and that they can go to the doctor when needed. And that means even if he has to get a second job. That's just called being a man. (An American man)
For those that lose their jobs then they need to get up and find another job (again it goes back to being a man) If he gets sick and can't work then there is a system for him. But maybe a large part of the problem with the healthcare system is all of the abuse. How many people get cosmetic surgery while passing it off as fixing a deviated septum (I know one person who did exactly that) I’ve seen it happen so I imagine it happens a lot.
Socialized medicine might work in other countries but in the USA we grow up with a different set of ethics. Ethics like taking care of your family so that burden doesn't fall to others, paying our own way and not expecting someone else to cover our own tab.
I like the fact that I can call my doctor, get an appointment and then actually be seen within 15 to 20 minutes of that appointment time. Maybe I have to pay a little more for that but I'm willing to. I want the best care I can get and please don't argue about being wealthy. I'm a single father who works a full time and a part time job. If you want a system that needs fixing then how about advocating for the single father. I know if I were in as much arrears to child support as my ex is to me I would be prosecuted by the law.

 

[dddooo]

Quote from gblnking:

Not really sure where in my post I stated exactly how much I pay for insurance. My cost is very minimal compared to the portion that my employer covers.

The portion that your employer covers is part of your compensation package, if your employer did not have to pay through the roof for health insurance he'd be able to give you a bigger bonus or raise. So in the end even if the employers pays for it the money comes out of your pocket.

I would agree with you if you were getting a better service and was willing to pay more for it. Unfortunately it's not the case, we're indeed paying more for it, twice or three times as much as anyone else in the world but the service we are getting is mediocre at best. We're simply getting ripped off by Health Insurance and Drug companies. So are the doctors btw.

 

[gblnking]

Quote from dddooo:

[The portion that your employer covers is part of your compensation package, if your employer did not have to pay through the roof for health insurance he'd be able to give you a bigger bonus or raise. So in the end even if the employers pays for it the money comes out of your pocket.

I would agree with you if you were getting a better service and was willing to pay more for it. Unfortunately it's not the case, we're indeed paying more for it, twice or three times as much as anyone else in the world but the service we are getting is mediocre at best. We're simply getting ripped off by Health Insurance and Drug companies. So are the doctors btw.]



But if my employer wasn't paying their portion whose to say they wouldn't keep the money for themselves.
You argue a point saying we don't get as good quality medical care. I have absolutely no argument with any of the care I've received. I have always with the exception of an occasionally rude doctor received nothing but top notch and prompt care.
Last year I had to go into the emergency room. I was immediately taken to a clean well-equipped room and had a doctor within 10 minutes taking care of me. This has been the norm not the exception all of my life.
I've even once in the last couple of years actually had my family practioner come out to my house to treat my daughter. And yes I realize that that definitely isn't a common occurrence.
Sorry, but I'll take the standard of care that I receive on a normal basis over waiting in long lines for care that may not be adequate

 

[fhl]

Quote from ZZZzzzzzzz:

How come I don't see Israel at the top of that list...

LOL!

Good point. The place they give the US and Israel's apparent absence gives me more confidence in my percieved motivations of these so called researchers.

Like everything else, it's all political.

edit: they probably went right from this research to research on global warming. lol

 

[neophyte321]

Quote from gblnking:

Quote from dddooo:

[The portion that your employer covers is part of your compensation package, if your employer did not have to pay through the roof for health insurance he'd be able to give you a bigger bonus or raise. So in the end even if the employers pays for it the money comes out of your pocket.

I would agree with you if you were getting a better service and was willing to pay more for it. Unfortunately it's not the case, we're indeed paying more for it, twice or three times as much as anyone else in the world but the service we are getting is mediocre at best. We're simply getting ripped off by Health Insurance and Drug companies. So are the doctors btw.]

But if my employer wasn't paying their portion whose to say they wouldn't keep the money for themselves.
You argue a point saying we don't get as good quality medical care. I have absolutely no argument with any of the care I've received. I have always with the exception of an occasionally rude doctor received nothing but top notch and prompt care.
Last year I had to go into the emergency room. I was immediately taken to a clean well-equipped room and had a doctor within 10 minutes taking care of me. This has been the norm not the exception all of my life.
I've even once in the last couple of years actually had my family practioner come out to my house to treat my daughter. And yes I realize that that definitely isn't a common occurrence.
Sorry, but I'll take the standard of care that I receive on a normal basis over waiting in long lines for care that may not be adequate

see the problem is ... the vagrant dealing dope in an alley is not receiving the same level of care as you ... SOMETHING MUST BE DONE! WE ARE ALL EQUAL!!! ....

In other words, you must pay for that vagrants hip-replacement surgery, If not, NO-ONE GETS NEW HIPS!