don't let the facts get in the way of your political leanings. Will let you post unemployment numbers for individual countries.
socialism in America.
- Thread starter zdreg
- Start date
And individual states in the US?
The US bounced back a little faster, I imagine Portugal is behind, Greece, etc. The Fed was aggressive, apparently debt does not matter both conservative and liberal economic advisors seem to have decide. We shall see. The EU has debt.
The EU is at LEAST equal to the USA short of some vast plains to test nukes in and grow subsidized corn and soya.
Arms industry is smaller, other things bigger. Have you lived abroad? Not just holidayed? I could regale you of stories of deprivation from any of the 25 US states I've been in as a tourist.
The US will become closer to Europe in policy as the profit curve on it's massive green field advantage is flattening. There is a reason the EPA is being de-clawed, there is more there under the ground but even that will not last.
Maturity will bring something akin to European socialistic democracy, not the same but similar now people are not longer walking into their yard and oil bubbling out of the ground. You got to use your brains now and work better with less.
Its odd (and incorrect) that Americans see western European states (and Sweden) as so socialist and just as bad that Europeans see the US as so capitalist. In reality, they are all a mix of capitalist policies and socialist/democratic policies.
In all, the poor get publicly funded healthcare (actually, in the UK, so do the rich). The unemployed get benefits (but in the UK only while they're looking for work - payments stop if you don't turn up to a job). In all, you get a state pension once you reach a certain age, but I believe this is more generous in the US than in the UK.
It would be interesting to discuss a rabidly socialist policy which the UK has and which the US would find far too leftish to swallow.
That's a funny question to ask given that I provided you a big freaking example right in my post! The German "Democratic" Republic was communist. The Federal Republic of Germany was socialist. As I stated, life was a whole lot better in West Germany than East, that's pretty much beyond dispute. Did you not read my post, or are you just ignoring this, or ????
In case you didn't get my question, rather than purposely ignoring it because it didn't fit your narrative, how many of the countries you listed "transitioned" to communism through socialism again? If Venezuela is all you've got, you haven't got much my friend, as I pointed out above it's about as good an example of socialism as Somalia is of capitalism ("it would be great to have some examples of their pro-socialist or pro-communist policies in Somalia"...see how that works?) Your assertion that "once you've got socialism you can never get rid of it and you will be subject to communism sooner or later." has no empirical evidence to support it, in fact to the contrary dozens of the most prosperous countries on earth, pretty much all of Western Europe, have been socialist for decades without descending into communism.
Capitalism and socialism are not mutually exclusive forms of government. Germany, Sweden, Norway, Finland, France, Holland....are all socialist countries with robust free enterprise. That's one primary difference between socialism and communism, in communism everything is state-owned and there is no or limited personal property or business. That is not the case with socialism.
If you want to get into an argument of semantics and claim that socialism and communism are essentially the same thing, then we're engaged a bit of stupidity here. If North Korea and the USSR are socialist to you and France is capitalist then we're in violent agreement, your definition "socialism" is a horrible form of government. I'm an entrepreneur after all, I start and run companies so I'm the last person in the world who would be against free enterprise! If France or Sweden or Belgium are socialist to you, then you're being intellectually dishonest to conflate them with North Korea. I'm nor sure which it is, to be honest.
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Certainly, the US is actually semi-socialist, the interstate highways, police, firemen and social welfare. Both have them just the stew recipe is different.
I've lived for years in the UK, London, various. I lived on a farm near Stonehenge, plenty of staff there worked out they would be better off on the dole maybe but were not interested. Even then, there is a constant hassle applied by the state except for people who are signed off a permanently unemployable for medical.
Efficiency is an odd thing. I'll defer to Cliffy for an illustration.
Sorry, can't find the original Cheers clip of Buffalo theory.
Keeping absolutely useless workers out of the way, can actually help (and reduces homelessness and associated problems) Demoralised, chronically injured and sick people don't really help an enterprise in my experience.
Look at the actions not the label.
I love the detail of the man in top hat and tails representing the corporatism / rich business owners aligned with the state.
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Democratic Republic of Congo
Democratic People's Republic of Korea
People's Republic of China
United States of America
PoliSci 101: any country that calls itself something in its official name, isn't that something. I prefer evidence to blind acceptance of what I'm told.
Edit: I feel the need to add for the factually impaired, that's DR Congo (not the one we call Congo, that's just Republic of Congo), North Korea, China, and 'merica.
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Quoting Ayn Rand to make a point, rather than a joke, is a tell and not a very good one.
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The Germany we see today became as wealthy as it is through capitalism. Its' got some stupid socialist policies but so has everywhere in the western world. Doesn't make them socialists and doesn't make socialism a desirable regime to live under.
Sweden and the rest became wealthy through capitalism (and let's not forget imperialism), not socialism. Sure, they also have some socialist policies, but so does the UK and the US. I guess Japan does too but they're clearly not a socialist country.
Anyway, which socialist countries have become rich? Which have become rich through socialism and stayed socialist?
I think we need to know your definition of a socialist country to answer your question. If it's Venezuela or North Korea, then again, we're in violent agreement. It appears that your definition of socialism as mutually elusive with capitalism isn't the one that most of the western world uses, so you might find yourself a similar pointless arguments frequently!