Do you really not grasp the difference between socialism and communism? None of those countries are socialist, but Norway, Finland, Sweden, France, and Germany are. Things are working out pretty damn well for ordinary people in those places. As @Slartibartfast advised, get a passport, develop a worldview based on actual having been somewhere, talked with the locals, and seeing things with your own eyes. How could anyone be against that?
socialism in America.
- Thread starter zdreg
- Start date
Again however an extreme offered by someone in Brazil, always the extremes and never the many scores of successful models.
Maybe Galt's Gulch in Chile, the libertarian community would interest you NeoTrader. Rand's ideal world was not exactly smooth sailing as like most societal models it had the idealised ideas of a sociopath (at best) at it's core. People turned out to be a little different in reality.
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Again with quoting Ayn Rand as some kind of great thinker. Seriously? The same Ayn Rand who criticized social security all the way up to the time she started collecting it? The one who criticized Medicare all the up to the point that we all paid to take care of her health problems from smoking. Not sure what kind of individualist capitalist hero that is, but definitely not quotable unless you're looking to entertain!
This is a bit of an over simplification. No millennial takes for granted that social security is socialism across time rather than class (god help you if you suggest to a boomer we'd be better off with it going insolvent tomorrow so we can recoup our losses). None of us are any less infuriated to receive a letter from SSA informing us that even at current funding rates, we'll still receive .50 on the dollar for everything we put in (never mind the 7% CAGR we could expect from the market).
Nor do they miss that gas is subsidized on such an extensive level we cannot even fund roads maintenance and people die on collapsing bridges. And this subsidy has led to a culture of broken cities and environmentally (both in the climate sense, and sense of place) unfriendly suburbs that makes a car a de facto requirement for participation in society in most places.
So millennials take practical steps towards addressing this burden we will bear after it's been skirted (in death) by those who caused it...And then get blamed for being entitled and lazy.
It beats me where these political cards will fall, but I suspect it's somewhere left of here. You can argue this political truism based on it's politics merit, but that somewhat misses the point. There is very real nuance to the arguments that many find compelling, and I do not understand how dismissing this with false equivalency and contempt helps the situation (I do see how it contributed to it, though). Demeaning a political argument to an echo chamber (an ever shrinking one, I might add) doesn't really add much to a debate that nevertheless goes on.
(That's not directed at you specifically, @zdreg...except the part about over simplification)
I quote whoever I want... And if you want to talk to me, answer my question from the other thread that you still didn't and instead just kept running away from it with BS. I said it before and I'll say it again: I don't argue with people who are only capable of making personal remarks about me or anyone else. I discuss ideas or I don't discuss at all.
Yeah, you go tell the Venezualans that... And like your buddy, talk to me when you are able to answer my question from the other thread without your BS... Until then...
Its odd that we've never heard anyone unfortunate enough to be living in a socialist state consoling themselves that at least it wasn't communist.
Its an old saying that the US is capitalist and European countries are socialist. In fact, both have borrowed elements of the other system when it suits them socio-economically and politically.
Dictatorships are not inherently non-socialist, but nor are they inherently fascist or communist, they can arise from any or none of these.
The distinction between a socialist state and a communist state is pretty thin as socialism is a transitory condition en route to communism. In practice, its a cosmetic difference in title, of no real significance to the wretched ordinary people living under those regimes. However, if you think it makes a difference -
USSR = Union of Soviet "SOCIALIST" Republics
Venezuela = Chavez imposed socialism and Maduro has continued these policies
Yugoslavia = Tito created the "SOCIALIST" Federal Republic of Yugoslavia
eastern Europe = former satellites of USSR - see above
China = see the Constitution of the People's Republic of China:
Article 1
"The People’s Republic of China is a socialist state under the people’s democratic dictatorship led by the working class and based on the alliance of workers and peasants.
The socialist system is the basic system of the People’s Republic of China. Disruption of the socialist system by any organization or individual is prohibited."
Cuba = see The Constitution of the Republic of Cuba:
ARTICLE 1
"Cuba is a socialist State of workers, independent and sovereign, organized with all and for the good of all, as a united, democratic republic, for the enjoyment of political freedom, social justice, individual and collective welfare, and human solidarity."
North Korea = see the Socialist Constitution of the Democratic People's Republic of Korea:
Preamble:
"The Democratic People’s Republic of Korea is the socialist motherland of Juche where the ideas and leadership of the great leaders Comrade Kim Il Sung and Comrade Kim Jong Il are applied."
Cambodia = OK, maybe the Khmer Rouge were communists, not socialists.
Of course, we don't see lists of countries and first-hand testimonies where socialism has made life so much better for those citizens. Why is that?
While we do see clearly that the west - the US, the European countries, but we could include Japan in this - have become rich and healthy places to love because of capitalism.
There is nothing more miserable than seeing the old pensioners who can't afford a decent standard of living.
Their rat race of life is done and they have nothing to look forward to.
Little food
poor shelter if any
can't afford to keep warm in winter
can't afford to spoil the grand children on a day out
While the rich have so much more than their basic needs, they are pushed to spend it.
I would propose :-
1. A wealth tax on multi millionaires
2. Equal pensions for all pensioners.
Come on poor pensioners claim your rights !!
Their rat race of life is done and they have nothing to look forward to.
Little food
poor shelter if any
can't afford to keep warm in winter
can't afford to spoil the grand children on a day out
While the rich have so much more than their basic needs, they are pushed to spend it.
I would propose :-
1. A wealth tax on multi millionaires
2. Equal pensions for all pensioners.
Come on poor pensioners claim your rights !!
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