Happy for you, though empirical evidence contradicts you. But you may still get your wish if Germany accommodates another couple million outsiders and they turn voters because German leaders for over 2 decades have confused granting refuge with granting permanent residence.
So why Tesla didn't pick Poland for their European factory?
- Thread starter Pekelo
- Start date
The Germans have a legitimate concern over other European nations' efforts to prioritize sound fiscal policies. This will not change because Germany has shown to be an industrious nation while southern countries are not as efficient, to say the least.
Yet, Europe is a fantastic experiment. Despite setbacks and sometimes excessive administrative and legislative burdens, the whole of Europe is far healthier today than it has ever been. Nations have put aside their narrow national interests for the greater success of the group. Enormous transfers of capital have helped poorer nations build their infrastructures and develop their economic activities much faster and more profoundly than would have been possible otherwise. Northern Europeans ability to retire in Southern Europe is also a consequence of building Europe.
Brexit has been a terrible blow to Europe and to the nearly 50% of Britons who believed in it. The future will tell if this was wise or not. If anything, it shows Europe's flexibility and capacity to adapt to change. One thing it must remain unwavering though is to its commitment to electoral democracy within its borders. Some newer members that came out of dictatorships are still grappling with what that means, but the nationalism cancer must not subvert the European experiment.
Someone came to his senses. Bravo
I have to disagree in this.
It would have been very true 30 years ago (1991) and I would have agreed 100%. But not in 2021. I don't doubt German engineering capability but rather the willingness of German companies to build a reliable vehicle.
- What makes a German car? I drive a Hyundai. If you buy the newest model it's a company whose head designer is German, model designer is a Belgian born in Peru, designed in Germany, built in Korea with parts from various countries like Japan and others. Is it just a Korean? Based on what?
- Porsche vehicles like Cayenne are also built in Slovakia and not Germany, same as high end models of Audi, VW and Škoda. Sure, designed by a German but built by Slovak engineers.
- Reliability of German vehicles is relatively poor compared to Japanese and now even Korean vehicles as per reliability surveys, especially for BMW and MB. It's not that they cannot built reliable cars but they've pretty much said "our customers don't care about reliability, they lease it for 3 years and discard it afterwards". This is also why in Europe high end German vehicles that are 10 years old sell for same or less as Toyotas, despite having much more equipment and better performance numbers. At that age they have severe maintenance costs upcoming and parts cost a fortune. Had a family member buy MB for a few generations, after being left on the side of the road on a fairly new vehicle and being told it needed an engine rebuild, he gave up eventually.
- What makes a German engineer? I'm fairly confident that in a German factory, at least a third of employees are Poles, Romanians or from elsewhere in the world.
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That's far from true. Western European countries are far more dictatorial than Eastern ones. Sadly it's changing in "new" EU. Germans are very proud to arrest people for their opinions if it goes against the majority.
Dominant EU countries like France and Germany are also attempting to force thrown everyone's throat the multicultural society without limits. I'm not talking about accepting a reasonable number of refugees or immigrants but opening up the borders and flooding countries. Many countries are struggling with health care funding and services, the idea of accepting thousands of Syrians and Iraqis who sit around, have large families and demand health care and better food (yes, that's actually what has happened) is absurd and will break said countries. In end, the refugees just leave anyway as their destination is Germany, UK or France. So now you've wasted colossal amounts of money, attempted to teach the local language and wasted human resources just so they can simply pack up and go.
This idea is pushed on by German corporations who are lacking qualified employees. Consequences aren't their concern, as long as there is cheap labor flooding in who smiles and doesn't demand anything. This is true also now in newer EU countries, with employees from poorer countries unwilling to stand up to their rights for fear of losing employment and having to go back to their countries.
Do you have links to some German sources car reliability tests? No American sources pls I find most test sites in the US completely biased.
I still think that German cars are great pieces of engineering and they perform very well in comparison. Like Apple phones which are made in China... what makes quality and ensures reliability is company management that decides on the quality of inputs, quality control, automation. That's why I praise German cars overall, especially those that come out of German production streets. Same with Toyota. One of their world's most reliable cars is the 4runner. Guess where it's made up to this day: Nagoya, Japan. Their trucks are made in Texas. All very reliable. I don't think the quality today of cars is much dependent on the few hands that touch the car in the manufacturing process. It's what I mentioned in the beginning that makes a difference. To the extend where human labor is involved I am pretty sure that cars that are made in Germany or Japan today beat most other models and makes in terms of reliability and quality control, thought, again, I believe the level of automation is much further advanced that we care to imagine. Robots make the cars, unionized workers wipe the factory floors.
We probably have to disagree here but I would never ever buy a Korean car. Toyota or German for me.
I still think that German cars are great pieces of engineering and they perform very well in comparison. Like Apple phones which are made in China... what makes quality and ensures reliability is company management that decides on the quality of inputs, quality control, automation. That's why I praise German cars overall, especially those that come out of German production streets. Same with Toyota. One of their world's most reliable cars is the 4runner. Guess where it's made up to this day: Nagoya, Japan. Their trucks are made in Texas. All very reliable. I don't think the quality today of cars is much dependent on the few hands that touch the car in the manufacturing process. It's what I mentioned in the beginning that makes a difference. To the extend where human labor is involved I am pretty sure that cars that are made in Germany or Japan today beat most other models and makes in terms of reliability and quality control, thought, again, I believe the level of automation is much further advanced that we care to imagine. Robots make the cars, unionized workers wipe the factory floors.
We probably have to disagree here but I would never ever buy a Korean car. Toyota or German for me.
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Germans have recently gotten better it seems but there's almost no difference with Japanese and Korean models: https://thecanadian.news/2020/11/09/tuv-report-2021-the-most-reliable-used-cars/
I've been to the main Mazda factory in Japan some years ago and seen the current manufacturing floors of manufacturers online. There's still quite a lot of human labor but the work is checked by machines as well as humans. So any defects don't really pass the exam.
My "Korean" car is designed in Germany and built in Korea. Interior is absolutely European as the lead designer came from Audi. It's not without faults but nothing significant. I might switch to Toyota but that's about it.
How do they test? How come cars in some segments in a market like North America never make it into the rankings of other markets and vice versa even though such cars are marketed and sold globally? I get the impression that most of those reports are hugely biased and false and misleading. For example, I have never seen a Toyota 4Runner in any European suv safety and reliability ranking. The 4runner for example beats every new Landrover hands down in terms of reliability. Not that I claim to have seen all the European rankings but it makes me curious because it points to a completely misleading rankings on both sides of the Atlantic.
Another example of how biased even leading rankings are is here: https://www.jdpower.com/business/press-releases/2019-initial-quality-study-iqs
Yes you read right, all European makers ranked at jdpower below average, even Ford and Lincoln rank higher than Mercedes, Porsche, BMW, Audi, VW. Lol. Really? When you read further they state the reason is issues with infotainment systems. So a Ford can break down on the road on average more often than a BMW but because some morons can't get their USB cable to work with the infotainment system Ford outranks BMW in terms of reliability? Totally skewed way to assess reliability in my book.
Another example of how biased even leading rankings are is here: https://www.jdpower.com/business/press-releases/2019-initial-quality-study-iqs
Yes you read right, all European makers ranked at jdpower below average, even Ford and Lincoln rank higher than Mercedes, Porsche, BMW, Audi, VW. Lol. Really? When you read further they state the reason is issues with infotainment systems. So a Ford can break down on the road on average more often than a BMW but because some morons can't get their USB cable to work with the infotainment system Ford outranks BMW in terms of reliability? Totally skewed way to assess reliability in my book.
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Who cares. Elon to me is just a name, I won't ever buy his products, I don't have any admiration towards him given the way he lives his life and interacts with others, the allocation of the talent and finances that he has been blessed with. I wish him a safe voyage to Mars and that he may find his happiness there. His cars suck dick and I won't ever even consider buying Tesla. Funny how some idiots in this site would suck Elon's cock but show their utter hatred towards guys like Bill Gates. Guess it just shows where some people get their news...
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