So why Tesla didn't pick Poland for their European factory?

[VicBee]

The answer is very simple. Why should companies who have learned from the past repeat the same mistakes? For decades companies have moved to locations with the lowest unit labor costs and out come inferior and mediocre products. A Romanian or polish laborer is currently not as well trained and does not possess the same desire for quality standards than a German worker. The result is pricing differences. It's not just about labor unions but about differences in the quality of the output. People slowly get educated that buying cheaper but inferior quality in many cases (not all) costs overall more, long term. Producing in Romania is inferior to producing in France or Germany but its cheaper. It's a tradeoff that each company and each product line has to decide for itself. Tesla has a tough going in Europe and Germany in particular because so far the quality of Tesla is abysmal and hugely inferior even to lesser priced German cars. I guess Elon Musk tries to alter that image. But image management in Germany never worked. Either you actually do offer better quality or not. Producing in Romania won't satisfy German consumers, at least not those who are asked to shell out a premium price

This is so untrue that I can't let it slide... it's such a stereotype to say that lower labor cost means lower quality products. It's what unions have been saying for years to justify their inflated pay packages. MBZ, BMW, Porsche, Audi are great cars but not all made in Germany and you wouldn't know the difference. All modern production lines have QC validations every few meters and the cars are all the same, except they cost less where people are paid less.
Tesla is a good example. Its China factory is building cars to the same standards as US built cars (just faster with less complaining), and Germany built cars will be no better. I do expect IG Metall, the German union, to make Musk's life so miserable that he will leave Germany within 10 years, just like he told California to shove it and built his factory in Texas.
On a side note, I owned a Porsche that I got rid of 8 months later because it spent more time in the shop to repair issues than I actually drove it. And BMW is well known for its electrical problems and overheating brakes. I know, we've owned half a dozen of them so don't give me this bs about superior German engineering and high value work. You drink your own kool-aid.

 

[DiceAreCast]

Or the split thereof. All the naysayers will be proven wrong. Northern Europe can only survive because they sell to Southern Europeans? What a joke. Germany greatly abuses the EU and gives nothing in return? How did Japan, an isolated island nation, survive for so long? It is called technological ingenuity and know-how. It all originates from superior moral and ethical values, an education that focuses on foundational knowledge, hard work, and a spirit to get things right even if it takes longer to bring to market. How many declared Japan bankrupt. Every time I visit Japan the country does fantastically well despite its aging society. Same with Germany, with or without Europe, with or without the other half of Europe, societies like Germany will always strive and do well.

Exactly. The southern EU is borrowing until completely broke. Meanwhile up north and east there's plenty of countries that keep a tight leash on finances. Southern EU countries are also favoring EU-wide taxes that will mostly penalize the northern countries, how very convenient. They most obviously favor a "I spend, you pay" approach. It can only end in the fall of EU.

 

[VicBee]

You guys are far right nationalists.. enough of your vomit. Tired of the Jews are taking over the world and non white people are laborers for the pure race... delete.

 

[d08]

Or the split thereof. All the naysayers will be proven wrong. Northern Europe can only survive because they sell to Southern Europeans? What a joke. Germany greatly abuses the EU and gives nothing in return? How did Japan, an isolated island nation, survive for so long? It is called technological ingenuity and know-how. It all originates from superior moral and ethical values, an education that focuses on foundational knowledge, hard work, and a spirit to get things right even if it takes longer to bring to market. How many declared Japan bankrupt. Every time I visit Japan the country does fantastically well despite its aging society. Same with Germany, with or without Europe, with or without the other half of Europe, societies like Germany will always strive and do well.

Germany is mired in issues as is Japan but yes, some countries seem to survive and build up from disaster while others complain, elect similar corrupt leaders and then blame outsiders for their own failures. This happens for centuries it seems. But hey, it's easier to blame outside events rather than taking a look in the mirror.

EU bonds can only work if all countries in the Eurozone have the same basic ideas and silent agreements, that does not exist at all. You have some countries like Greece where majority of the population has a "We Greeks deserve..." approach to everything. Even when pointing out that poorer EU countries financed their debt obligations. This level of arrogance is something else.

 

[piezoe]

Frankfurt ;-)

Exactly, and this would destroy all the German wealth with one signature. All the hard work of the past 7 decades would be reduced to nothing. All the while our Greek and South Italian neighbors partied as if there is no tomorrow and each time the bill arrives they knock on Germany's door and demand handouts. That is the EXACT way that Soros proposes. And no, that is not gonna happen. He conveniently does not demand any comparable sacrifices from any other country or nation on earth. Guess why his parents moved their Jewish butts and why the German hatred.

I can can understand why Germans might oppose a completely unified monetary system in Europe. It seems as though you may be of German descent, which would understandably account for your seemingly not very objective position when it comes to a truly unified European Monetary Union. I am a little surprised that you don't at least recognize and appreciate Soros's openness on this matter. This seems to fly in the face of your claim that he has a hidden agenda.

We still have no clue what it is you are driving at with your claim that Soros's agenda is hidden. To myself and others it seems that in fact his agenda is well known, very public, and anything but hidden. For years now, he has hosted a dinner at the Davos Conference where he outlines his agenda, and makes eagerly awaited predictions of what is to come. These annual talks are well attended. There is nothing hidden about his positions which are freely expressed.

In my opinion, a Eurobond would make life far simpler for the ECB. I understand why Great Britain wisely declined to join the monetary union. I imagine the Greeks have many times wished they hadn't. I don't know that the EU Monetary Union can last without a Eurobond. But we will see, won't we.

 

[VicBee]

I can can understand why Germans might oppose a completely unified monetary system in Europe. It seems as though you may be of German descent, which would understandably account for your seemingly not very objective position when it comes to a truly unified European Monetary Union. I am a little surprised that you don't at least recognize and appreciate Soros's openness on this matter. This seems to fly in the face of your claim that he has a hidden agenda.

We still have no clue what it is you are driving at with your claim that Soros's agenda is hidden. To myself and others it seems that in fact his agenda is well known, very public, and anything but hidden. For years now, he has hosted a dinner at the Davos Conference where he outlines his agenda, and makes eagerly awaited predictions of what is to come. These annual talks are well attended. There is nothing hidden about his positions which are freely expressed.

In my opinion, a Eurobond would make life far simpler for the ECB. I understand why Great Britain wisely declined to join the monetary union. I imagine the Greeks have many times wished they hadn't. I don't know that the EU Monetary Union can last without a Eurobond. But we will see, won't we.

Soros is the favorite boogeyman for the white supremacist nazis. He's a billionaire liberal Jew who puts his money where his mouth is, fighting nationalists around Europe. Basically everything these nazis hate.

 

[d08]

Soros is the favorite boogeyman for the white supremacist nazis. He's a billionaire liberal Jew who puts his money where his mouth is, fighting nationalists around Europe. Basically everything these nazis hate.

Nice try at trying to play the nazi card. Don't like someone's opinion? Call them a nazi or a cuck or a libtard. Make sure not to focus on the point, just attack the person. Good luck, keep repeating the same thing, maybe someone will bite.

 

[DiceAreCast]

Where are the great Chinese cars and Romanian cars and Slovakian cars that rival Porsche and Audi engineering ingenuity? The reason many inputs are manufactured abroad is because of automation. Can you explain to me how a labor wage can be so low in one place and so high in another place? It's nonsense to argue that the only difference is unionization. That is simply not true. The difference is training, qualifications, safety regulations, living standards and taxation. Tell me how motivated a Chinese factory rat is compared to a Porsche factory worker in Germany. You have no clue what you are talking about. German cars are the most respected cars in the world regarding quality, reliability and technological standard. Some Japanese cars compete. The rest is utter crap. Please do not make me laugh and compare a Tesla with a German car. Take a look at the interior and tell me again they compare. Tesla is a piece of junk with electric motors and batteries and some software that is it. Audi and Porsche literally are driving machines. Check the maintenance record of any 10 year old Porsche or Audi or BMW or Merc vs Tesla and tell me again which one is more reliable and of superior quality.

Same with other workers. On average you get a paint job done better by a German trained painter than a Polish or Romanian one. You may read up on apprenticeship and trades training in Germany. It is still one of the most rigorous and respected one in the world. Probably only beaten by Japan.

You owned half a dozen and each broke down? That makes you to the moron of the day. I call out bullshit.

This is so untrue that I can't let it slide... it's such a stereotype to say that lower labor cost means lower quality products. It's what unions have been saying for years to justify their inflated pay packages. MBZ, BMW, Porsche, Audi are great cars but not all made in Germany and you wouldn't know the difference. All modern production lines have QC validations every few meters and the cars are all the same, except they cost less where people are paid less.
Tesla is a good example. Its China factory is building cars to the same standards as US built cars (just faster with less complaining), and Germany built cars will be no better. I do expect IG Metall, the German union, to make Musk's life so miserable that he will leave Germany within 10 years, just like he told California to shove it and built his factory in Texas.
On a side note, I owned a Porsche that I got rid of 8 months later because it spent more time in the shop to repair issues than I actually drove it. And BMW is well known for its electrical problems and overheating brakes. I know, we've owned half a dozen of them so don't give me this bs about superior German engineering and high value work. You drink your own kool-aid.

 

[DiceAreCast]

It has nothing whatsoever to do with being of anyone's descent. If there was a monetary union between the entire America's I would equally oppose transfer payment from rich to poor nations if poor nations showed the same arrogance and ignorance as Greece, Southern Italy, Spain, Portugal,... The mentality was and still is that the rich north is always supposed to take care of its little party hungry brothers. That is not a deserving mindset.

We have heard people like you for how long now? That's correct, 20 years and longer. Europe can't stand without fiscal union. Lol. The Euro is dead. Lol. The union is at the brink of collapse. Check out Europe. Do Italian or Spanish or German government bond yields appear spiked in any sort or fashion? Not to my eyes. But there won't be fiscal union with Germany in the union. European members are just too vastly different, especially when it comes to ethical and moral values.
We are friends but not family.

I can can understand why Germans might oppose a completely unified monetary system in Europe. It seems as though you may be of German descent, which would understandably account for your seemingly not very objective position when it comes to a truly unified European Monetary Union. I am a little surprised that you don't at least recognize and appreciate Soros's openness on this matter. This seems to fly in the face of your claim that he has a hidden agenda.

We still have no clue what it is you are driving at with your claim that Soros's agenda is hidden. To myself and others it seems that in fact his agenda is well known, very public, and anything but hidden. For years now, he has hosted a dinner at the Davos Conference where he outlines his agenda, and makes eagerly awaited predictions of what is to come. These annual talks are well attended. There is nothing hidden about his positions which are freely expressed.

In my opinion, a Eurobond would make life far simpler for the ECB. I understand why Great Britain wisely declined to join the monetary union. I imagine the Greeks have many times wished they hadn't. I don't know that the EU Monetary Union can last without a Eurobond. But we will see, won't we.

 

[piezoe]

It has nothing whatsoever to do with being of anyone's descent. If there was a monetary union between the entire America's I would equally oppose transfer payment from rich to poor nations if poor nations showed the same arrogance and ignorance as Greece, Southern Italy, Spain, Portugal,... The mentality was and still is that the rich north is always supposed to take care of its little party hungry brothers. That is not a deserving mindset.

We have heard people like you for how long now? That's correct, 20 years and longer. Europe can't stand without fiscal union. Lol. The Euro is dead. Lol. The union is at the brink of collapse. Check out Europe. Do Italian or Spanish or German government bond yields appear spiked in any sort or fashion? Not to my eyes. But there won't be fiscal union with Germany in the union. European members are just too vastly different, especially when it comes to ethical and moral values.
We are friends but not family.

My own opinion is that the Euro will survive and that it will be Germany that eventually gives in and agrees to the Eurobond, with each member of the monetary union issuing their own bonds as well. It's the ECB that needs the Eurobond.