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So how come they allow this front run bs?
- Thread starter Nofear777
- Start date
businessstaxes
Guest
The SEC just not doing it's job it was paid to do?
SEC works for goldman sachs not for the market participants and mostly funded by the broker/dealer and HFT who pay a majority of the SEC fees,,,the retail trader don't matter since they are too small.
The SEC doesn't hit the hand that feeds it.
SEC works for goldman sachs not for the market participants and mostly funded by the broker/dealer and HFT who pay a majority of the SEC fees,,,the retail trader don't matter since they are too small.
The SEC doesn't hit the hand that feeds it.
Quote from Occam:
This is due to "Broker/Dealer Internalization", "payment for order flow", and "dark pools", where such prices are allowed unfortunately due to their having been sort of grandfathered in. I disagree with some of the earlier, cynical posts; exchanges and the SEC are interested in combating these behaviors, although it's a battle.
See the following:
http://www.tradersmagazine.com/news...ark-pools-level-direct-edge-sec-105265-1.html
http://www.tradersmagazine.com/news/sec-dark-pools-reg-ats-proposed-rules-104652-1.html
Quote from Nofear777:
Im lifting a finger now no?
What can we do?
There is a lot we can do. Our firm, Bright Trading is the only firm standing up against these internalization abuses. As traders, we need to stand up against broker-dealer internalization, as these abusers constantly step in front of displayed limit orders by a sub-penny increment. We've had over 30 of our traders send comment letters to the SEC discussing these "sub-pennying" abuses. Please join us in the fight, it only takes a couple minutes of your time. If you believe that your limit order has the right to be executed against retail order flow, stand up and tell the SEC about it. Here is the form.
http://www.sec.gov/cgi-bin/ruling-c...le=Concept Release on Equity Market Structure
Broker-dealers are defending this practice by saying they are giving price improvement to their customer's orders. This sub-penny price improvement does not justify the unquantifiable loss to the displayed liquidity provider that was left unfilled. Please join us in the battle.
Other comments are posted here:
http://www.sec.gov/comments/s7-02-10/s70210.shtml
Dennis Dick, Bright Trading
Ivon, I feel for ya.. That about explains exactly how this crap works.
That algo is out to rip off the little guy. Thats its only purpose .
At least when the specialist front ran me I got something out of it, like a general idea of where the stock is headed.
These bul*sht programs do nothing but keep people from being filled on limits.
That algo is out to rip off the little guy. Thats its only purpose .
At least when the specialist front ran me I got something out of it, like a general idea of where the stock is headed.
These bul*sht programs do nothing but keep people from being filled on limits.
Quote from jd7419:
Subpennying is not allowed for you or I. Institutions can use it for a few reasons. Placing limit orders is not a wise move because algos will subpenny the order. Example I want to buy 3000 aapl at 246.89 with a limit order. A predatory algo can jump this order and buy 3000 at 246.8910. After the algo gets filled if price does not go up immediately guess who gets slammed filled on the 3000 shares.
The way to trade now is to take liquidity but do not route out to dark pools etc. The game keeps changing we must keep adapting as well.
How does routing out of darkpools help me? Especially when noone else is doing it.
Lets think about this. Is there anyway to avoid these go*ddamn mothr farkin programs?
How about undisplayed limits?
F F FF f!!!
I cant just go market all the time. The fees are RIDICULOUS!
Quote from Nofear777:
Example. I have bid at 3.16. Someone sells 3000 shares at 3.1602
WTF is that? How do I put in sub penny order? I want to put my order at 3.1699.
Is that possible?
It doesnt seem to let me.
What you are seeing is your broker filling an order between two of its customers so that the broker makes the spread instead of the specialist or market maker making the spread. The broker can do this as long as they give a better bid (or ask) than the one you see. My broker does all the time, and it usually results in a bunch of partial fills. Sometimes I use All or None (AON) order to avoid all the partial fill BS. I assume this is common place for the retail brokers to do this.
That crap is great isn't it.
In a nutshell, micro-penny pricing was one of 25 wonderful exemptions provided to NASDAQ by the SEC after the bullsh*t REG NMS. Also known as REG NO MORE SPECIALIST.
SO the SEC in it's infinite mis-understanding of the markets, decided that this sub-penny pricing was there to be beneficial to RETAIL investors like yourself. ONLY PROBLEM is that retail investors are not able to quote and/or trade in sub-penny's!!!!! What the F&&k is a sub-penny anyway... is there a coin I can put in my pocket and put in the bank???
Brilliant market policy.
SO, NASDAQ lobbied their ENRON of the capital markets usual way into this scam, basically allowing them to price all trading off of the REAL markets, the primaries... with ZERO risk...
So they have a customer order that wants to hit your 3.16 bid?? EASY, we'll pay 3.1601 and have exactly .0001 loss while getting to collect the 3.5 cent rebate per hundred for PROVIDING liquidity. Then the NASDAQ gets to go out with all their shiny pie charts and tell everyone not in the know that they improve the market 99.9% of the time.
Not to mention that they double print every single G*Ddamn trade!!!! Oh they print the 1000 that the buyer bought, and the 1000 that the seller sold.... wow 2000 shares hit the tape when only 1000 shares changed hands!!! Great right?!?!?!?
What a disgrace, truly the ENRON of the markets, all smoke and mirrors.
In a nutshell, micro-penny pricing was one of 25 wonderful exemptions provided to NASDAQ by the SEC after the bullsh*t REG NMS. Also known as REG NO MORE SPECIALIST.
SO the SEC in it's infinite mis-understanding of the markets, decided that this sub-penny pricing was there to be beneficial to RETAIL investors like yourself. ONLY PROBLEM is that retail investors are not able to quote and/or trade in sub-penny's!!!!! What the F&&k is a sub-penny anyway... is there a coin I can put in my pocket and put in the bank???
Brilliant market policy.
SO, NASDAQ lobbied their ENRON of the capital markets usual way into this scam, basically allowing them to price all trading off of the REAL markets, the primaries... with ZERO risk...
So they have a customer order that wants to hit your 3.16 bid?? EASY, we'll pay 3.1601 and have exactly .0001 loss while getting to collect the 3.5 cent rebate per hundred for PROVIDING liquidity. Then the NASDAQ gets to go out with all their shiny pie charts and tell everyone not in the know that they improve the market 99.9% of the time.
Not to mention that they double print every single G*Ddamn trade!!!! Oh they print the 1000 that the buyer bought, and the 1000 that the seller sold.... wow 2000 shares hit the tape when only 1000 shares changed hands!!! Great right?!?!?!?
What a disgrace, truly the ENRON of the markets, all smoke and mirrors.
Quote from CET:
What you are seeing is your broker filling an order between two of its customers so that the broker makes the spread instead of the specialist or market maker making the spread. The broker can do this as long as they give a better bid (or ask) than the one you see. My broker does all the time, and it usually results in a bunch of partial fills. Sometimes I use All or None (AON) order to avoid all the partial fill BS. I assume this is common place for the retail brokers to do this.
You are saying its my broker doing this? How come it cant be another broker of a HFT?
Quote from CAPTJohnny:
That crap is great isn't it.
In a nutshell, micro-penny pricing was one of 25 wonderful exemptions provided to NASDAQ by the SEC after the bullsh*t REG NMS. Also known as REG NO MORE SPECIALIST.
SO the SEC in it's infinite mis-understanding of the markets, decided that this sub-penny pricing was there to be beneficial to RETAIL investors like yourself. ONLY PROBLEM is that retail investors are not able to quote and/or trade in sub-penny's!!!!! What the F&&k is a sub-penny anyway... is there a coin I can put in my pocket and put in the bank???
Brilliant market policy.
SO, NASDAQ lobbied their ENRON of the capital markets usual way into this scam, basically allowing them to price all trading off of the REAL markets, the primaries... with ZERO risk...
So they have a customer order that wants to hit your 3.16 bid?? EASY, we'll pay 3.1601 and have exactly .0001 loss while getting to collect the 3.5 cent rebate per hundred for PROVIDING liquidity. Then the NASDAQ gets to go out with all their shiny pie charts and tell everyone not in the know that they improve the market 99.9% of the time.
Not to mention that they double print every single G*Ddamn trade!!!! Oh they print the 1000 that the buyer bought, and the 1000 that the seller sold.... wow 2000 shares hit the tape when only 1000 shares changed hands!!! Great right?!?!?!?
What a disgrace, truly the ENRON of the markets, all smoke and mirrors.
I read this and get so aggravated I want to burn something.
Quote from Nofear777:
Example. I have bid at 3.16. Someone sells 3000 shares at 3.1602
WTF is that? How do I put in sub penny order? I want to put my order at 3.1699.
Is that possible?
It doesnt seem to let me.
So let me get this straight. You are advocating the SEC force whoever sold those 3000 to take your worse bid and pay 60 cents more for the trade to make it 'fair'?
If someone wants to undercut you, they should be allowed. Otherwise you are no longer dealing with a free market.
That being said. You should be allowed to bid anything you want, including 3.1699, you should do some research into ECNs and figure out who allows it.