#ShutDownStem

[fan27]

I assume you don't work in HR/Hiring, based upon your posts on this site. On what basis do you make the above generalization. The evidence shows a disparity; absent evidence that there is some other reason, and in light of other historical examples of men discriminating against women (voting rights, etc.), the logical conclusion is the disparity is due to sexism; again, unless you have evidence otherwise.

Regarding pay, I would be very interested to see pay stats in science in math for various races. However, the status need to include location and experience. For example, I can assure you that a black software engineer in Northern California will be making significantly more than me with the same experience living in Florida.

Do you agree that current racism affects the pay, education and opportunities of Blacks?

On a systemic level, no.

 

[userque]

Regarding pay, I would be very interested to see pay stats in science in math for various races. However, the status need to include location and experience. For example, I can assure you that a black software engineer in Northern California will be making significantly more than me with the same experience living in Florida.

Yes, we'd have to adjust for location. IOW, all other factors being equal.

I'll see what I can quickly find, if anything.

On a systemic level, no.

Before we agree on a definition of "systemic," and using the same definition you had in mind when you answered the above: Do you agree that current non-systemic racism affects the pay, education and opportunities of Blacks?

 

[fan27]

Before we agree on a definition of "systemic," and using the same definition you had in mind when you answered the above: Do you agree that current non-systemic racism affects the pay, education and opportunities of Blacks?

Pay. Maybe. Education and opportunities in terms of getting a job..no. For example, colleges will often accept minorities with lower test scores and grades over whites. In terms of jobs, certainly in corporate america and especially government jobs, there is a massive push to have a diversified workforce. My wife works for the local fire service and they joke that if you are Asian and half a pulse, you can get a job because there are so few Asian fire fighters.

 

[userque]

Pay. Maybe. Education and opportunities in terms of getting a job..no. For example, colleges will often accept minorities with lower test scores and grades over whites. In terms of jobs, certainly in corporate america and especially government jobs, there is a massive push to have a diversified workforce. My wife works for the local fire service and they joke that if you are Asian and half a pulse, you can get a job because there are so few Asian fire fighters.

Just to be clear, you're saying:
Racism maybe can adversely affect Black's pay?
Racism doesn't adversely affect Black's educational opportunities?
Racism doesn't adversely affect Black's employment opportunities?

 

[fan27]

Just to be clear, you're saying:
Racism maybe can adversely affect Black's pay?
Racism doesn't adversely affect Black's educational opportunities?
Racism doesn't adversely affect Black's employment opportunities?

Yes...but I don't think pay differentials are systemically racist in nature. Some people are racist and will try to pay people less based on the color of their skin. I would like to see evidence that this is at a system wide level.

 

[userque]

Yes...but I don't think pay differentials are systemically racist in nature. Some people are racist and will try to pay people less based on the color of their skin. I would like to see evidence that this is at a system wide level.

Right, we were talking non-systemic. I should have included that word in my 'just to be clear' post. I'm sure we'll get to the systemic vs non-systemic argument soon.

 

[fan27]

Just to be clear, you're saying:
Racism maybe can adversely affect Black's pay?
Racism doesn't adversely affect Black's educational opportunities?
Racism doesn't adversely affect Black's employment opportunities?

This is getting tedious...provide data showing systemic racism in science and math....and under representation cannot be automatically equated to racism. You have to dig deeper than that.

 

[userque]

Yes...but I don't think pay differentials are systemically racist in nature. Some people are racist and will try to pay people less based on the color of their skin. I would like to see evidence that this is at a system wide level.

[Emphasis added above.] Wouldn't / Couldn't this same individual racist argument apply to higher education admissions offices (let's say, after any 'quotas' have been met); and also to employer hiring decisions?

 

[userque]

This is getting tedious...provide data showing systemic racism in science and math....and under representation cannot be automatically equated to racism. You have to dig deeper than that.

Well, that's not my debate approach, at least not at this point of the debate.

Maybe you can provide data evidencing your point, that you asserted: that no systemic racism exists.

Regardless as to systemic or non-systemic.

You have agreed that 'individual racism' exists.

So, we have pay etc. disparities, and whether the mechanism is systemic, or non-systemic--is a distinction without a difference, no? It's still a problem, no?

Just stop responding if you no longer want to respond, or if you have to sleep, etc.
Respond tomorrow, if you want. Or don't respond at all; It's cool either way with me. I understand.