#ShutDownStem

[userque]

Who do you think is going to have a higher interest in studying math and science?

1. An Asian American who comes from a middle class family whose peer group is interested in math and science and whose parents encourages pursuits in the math and sciences.

2. An African American who comes from a lower income family who has very few if any of his peers interested in math and science.

3. A White American who comes from a lower income family who has very few if any of his peers interested in math and science.

Of course the Asian American in this example is more likely to pursue match and science and I would guess that the white and black american both have the same likely hood of pursuing math and science. Show me any university that is discriminating against minority students...it is usually the opposite. Universities and large companies are thrilled to admit/hire minorities...I have seen this first hand in tech.

My response depends on your answer to my simple question. I'd like to stay focused on the point you made, and that I decided to respond to. Perhaps we can move the goal posts and debate additional points; but first things first, please.

Here is the flow:

The flawed logic is that under representation equates to systemic racism. Perhaps we should have a quota system where any company, university, sports team, governmental agency, etc. has the racial makeup reflective of society.

If not some form of discrimination/racism, somewhere in the chain, what are the other possibilities?

I renew my question. I think I see what you are insinuating, but I'd rather you just simply state it, rather than answering my simple question, with multiple questions.

 

[fan27]

My response depends on your answer to my simple question. I'd like to stay focused on the point you made, and that I decided to respond to. Perhaps we can move the goal posts and debate additional points; but first things first, please.

Here is the flow:




I renew my question.

I answered your question. Different populations based mostly on class have different levels of interest in math and science.

 

[fan27]

Why are blacks over represented in the NFL and NBA? Why are blacks underrepresented in the NHL? Systemic racism?

 

[userque]

I answered your question. Different populations based mostly on class have different levels of interest in math and science.

By class, you mean income class?

 

[userque]

Why are blacks over represented in the NFL and NBA? Why are blacks underrepresented in the NHL? Systemic racism?

I can answer this question, but again, I like to do one debate per person at a time.

Currently, you made an assertion, and I'm asking you about it in order to get a clear understanding of exactly what it is you are contending.

It basically will boil down to you proving your point that systemic racism doesn't exist ... or something near that effect.

Your above question essentially is asking me to prove it does exist.

My position is, again, one at a time, and you first; since you made the allegation first. I'll see your challenge, afterwards.

 

[fan27]

By class, you mean income class?

Yes.

 

[userque]

Yes.

Thanks. I took your 'like' to mean 'yes.'

I'll ask these as a group, rather than just one at a time, as they are related logically.

• Do you believe that there is a disparity of income between equally qualified Whites and Blacks?
• Do you believe that 400 years of slavery against Blacks would affect the first "free" Black generation regarding wealth and education vs. Whites?
• Do you believe that the wealth and education of prior Black generations affects the subsequent generations with regard to education and wealth?

 

[fan27]

Thanks. I took your 'like' to mean 'yes.'

I'll ask these as a group, rather than just one at a time, as they are related logically.

• Do you believe that there is a disparity of income between equally qualified Whites and Blacks?
• Do you believe that 400 years of slavery against Blacks would affect the first "free" Black generation regarding wealth and education vs. Whites?
• Do you believe that the wealth and education of prior Black generations affects the subsequent generations with regard to education and wealth?

Do you believe that there is a disparity of income between equally qualified Whites and Blacks?
It's possible. It see it in tech between males and females. I don't think it is sexism but rather males are likely to aggressively negotiate for higher salaries that females.

Do you believe that 400 years of slavery against Blacks would affect the first "free" Black generation regarding wealth and education vs. Whites?
Absolutely. But this does not equate to current day systemic racism.

Do you believe that the wealth and education of prior Black generations affects the subsequent generations with regard to education and wealth?
Yes...middle class/educated blacks are likely to have kids that are middle class/educated...and the same holds true for lower class/uneducated blacks having kids that are lower class/uneducated.

The current system is designed to keep the current system in place which means most opportunities for success reside more in certain zip codes than others. I agree that blacks are much more likely to be lower class based on the echoes of slavery and I am not saying there are no inequalities in the system. I just see it as mostly class based.

 

[userque]

Do you believe that there is a disparity of income between equally qualified Whites and Blacks?
It's possible. It see it in tech between males and females. I don't think it is sexism but rather males are likely to aggressively negotiate for higher salaries that females.

I assume you don't work in HR/Hiring, based upon your posts on this site. On what basis do you make the above generalization. The evidence shows a disparity; absent evidence that there is some other reason, and in light of other historical examples of men discriminating against women (voting rights, etc.), the logical conclusion is the disparity is due to sexism; again, unless you have evidence otherwise.

Do you believe that 400 years of slavery against Blacks would affect the first "free" Black generation regarding wealth and education vs. Whites?

Absolutely. But this does not equate to current day systemic racism.

I agree, in that respect. However, the mentality that initiated racism; that allowed it for 400 years; that fought and died to try to allow it for longer than 400 years, didn't disappear with the Emancipation Proclamation. That same racist mentality exists today in a certain percentage of White people. It is that mentality that still affects Blacks to this day.

Do you believe that the wealth and education of prior Black generations affects the subsequent generations with regard to education and wealth?

Yes...middle class/educated blacks are likely to have kids that are middle class/educated...and the same holds true for lower class/uneducated blacks having kids that are lower class/uneducated.

That's right. Unless a families wealth reaches a certain 'critical mass,' they will likely remain in the same class, or go lower.

The current system is designed to keep the current system in place which means most opportunities for success reside more in certain zip codes than others.

Zip codes are one method of mass discrimination, but they aren't the root. Who lives in "those" zip codes? Whites.

If they 'flight' to a different zip code (if better-off Blacks start moving in, for example), then the first zip code (may) no longer carries 'weight.'

The zip code doesn't decide who can live there.
The zip code doesn't decide who gets hired there.
The zip code doesn't decide what your pay will be; what your promotion opportunities will be.
People make these decisions.

I agree that blacks are much more likely to be lower class based on the echoes of slavery and I am not saying there are no inequalities in the system. I just see it as mostly class based.

Do you agree that current racism affects the pay, education and opportunities of Blacks?

 

[MoneyMatthew]

Another day and another call by Democrats to cancel/destroy/erase something. Cancel Culture is the go-to move in the Democrat Playbook right now.

Attention everyone! Let's destroy any public statues or monuments that depict any historical figures in Science, Technology, Engineering, and Mathematics!

(Is Blaise safe in France? Nope, not if any Americans happen to be nearby).