Shutdown II... the Death Blow

[El OchoCinco]

Staggered shutdown was the name of the game. Really no point on doing full shutdowns unless the states become hot spots. The benefit of hindsight.

Yeah but people are panicking about shutdowns....just to be clear it be in your states where you fucked up. the rest of us are not worried about lockdowns yet as logn as people move into Phase 2 with a head on their shoulders.

But you dont think the other states moving forward will panic when FL, TX, AZ and others start getting spikes and have to move backwards?

 

[gwb-trading]

Want to save the economy?

A National Mask Mandate Could Save The U.S. Economy $1 Trillion, Goldman Sachs Says
https://www.forbes.com/sites/sarahh...y-1-trillion-goldman-sachs-says/#28820ac656f1

As mask-wearing becomes a political flashpoint—despite coronavirus cases spiking to record levels across the country—new research from Goldman Sachs suggests a national mask mandate would slow the growth rate of new coronavirus infections and prevent a 5% GDP loss caused by additional lockdown measures.

• Goldman’s analysts found that wearing face coverings has a significant impact on coronavirus outcomes, and they suggest that a federal mask mandate would “meaningfully” increase mask usage across the country, especially in states like Florida and Texas, where masks are not currently required.
• The researchers estimate that a national mandate would increase the portion of people who wearing masks by 15%, and cut the daily growth of new cases by between 0.6% and 1%.
• Reducing the spread of the virus through mask-wearing, the analysts found, could be a substitute for strict lockdown measures that would otherwise shave 5%—or $1 trillion—off the U.S. GDP.

Crucial quote
“If a face mask mandate meaningfully lowers coronavirus infections, it could be valuable not only from a public health perspective but also from an economic perspective because it could substitute for renewed lockdowns that would otherwise hit GDP,” the researchers wrote.

Key background
As coronavirus cases rise to record levels, prompting some states to pause or walk back their reopening plans, many lawmakers have called for a national mask mandate. Presumptive presidential nominee Joe Biden said that if he’s elected, he would use federal power to require all Americans to wear masks in public places. House Speaker Nancy Pelosi has also voiced her support for the practice: “Real men wear masks,” she said earlier this month. New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo has also called for an executive order mandating that everyone wear masks in public, suggesting that President Trump—who has downplayed the importance of masks and dismissed suggestions that he wear one—should lead by example.

 

[BeautifulStranger]

It might not whether there is an offical shutdown or not for the economy to continue to feel Coronavirus repercussions. Unless there is such a thing as free money, of course. Some people are concerned about Covid-19, some are not. Some are wearing PPE, some are not. If there is an official shutdown, spending drops and jobs are lost, at least temporarily. If there is not an offical shutdown, those people who are concerned about Covid-19 will still take defensive action until they change their opinions or Covid-19 no longer poses a threat either by eradication or equally unlikely, a highly effective vaccine is developed.

Defensive action to Covid-19 involves avoiding crowds. Crowds in nightclubs, restaurants, theaters, airplanes, cruiseships, sporting events, healthclubs, and malls pose a concern to some because of those people who refuse to wear a mask. The preceeding represents a lot of potential business lost by significant number of service oriented companies because of people who don’t feel safe.

Covid-19 can remain viable on various surfaces such as door handles, gasoline dispenser handles, silverware, plates, tables, faucet handles, etc. for hours. Need I go into detail of people who rinse their hands in a public restroom for a couple of seconds and then use the air dryer? Talk about an effective bioweapon platform. I have yet to see anybody wear gloves who was not using them specifically for a work related task in my travels around the country. Edit: Think about all the foods Americans eat with their hands such as sandwiches, fries, potato chips, etc.

If it is true that people who catch Coronavirus can still be reinfected after a few months, it will never go away until people globally consistently wear PPE. Those countries in Asia will soon see a second or third wave of infection because of travel from infected countries unless they require and consistently enforce PPE. If Asians can learn to wear PPE, why can’t we? After all, we will pay for this pandemic one way or another. Whether it is through, say, a month of PPE inconvenience, The drip drip of continued lost business because of crowd avoidence, or the economic sledgehammer of a mandatory shutdown.

Most governmental and corporate systems have checks and balances. So does nature, it seems.

 

[Ricter]

Americans have the right to open carry firearms.

But not in Trump rallies, which is a shame. A Constitutional shame.

 

[Clubber Lang]

Shutdowns = More Fed trillions + more Treasury checks
Market will love it. S&P highs by October.
It’s a rigged game, don’t fight it

 

[smallfil]

You would think that a leader like Trump with narcissistic and control tendencies would have welcomed and used the COVID-19 pandemic for his political agenda if he had any competence.

This was an opportunity to rule the U.S. with strong-hand -- shutting down borders, driving his health agenda, demanding the national guard be called up in every state, taking federal control of medically non-compliant cities, and other actions aligned with his agenda. COVID-19 was the perfect opportunity to drive them all. If Trump had done it well he would have looked like a national hero while addressing the worst pandemic in 100 years. People would have forgiven economic damage and the inconvenience of lockdowns as long as they saw clear unifying, strong leadership at the federal level. He could have set the table to win the 2020 election easily.

Instead Trump dithered away, trying to arrange crony capitalism for medical supplies to make his buddies rich while tweeting nonsense showing he was not in any way a leader. This was coupled with his disastrous press conferences that never stayed on topic and only demonstrated that he was completely incompetent to address a crisis. He spent his time trying to minimize the problem while rushing to re-open the economy so he did not have to deal with our national public health crisis.

Are you kidding? Remember when President Donald Trump threatened to use the Insurrection Act against rioters destroying, burning, looting businesses, etc. Democrats had a hissy fit saying there is no basis for such act? At the same time, extreme liberal Democrats are allowing Antifa and BLM thugs to destroy their neighborhoods and businesses? As for the Corona Virus, again is used by Democrats and their allies in extreme liberal media to promote panic and hysteria to keep the country closed and damage the US economy. That was the plan all along. Now, if the US was a communist country like China, none of that crap would be tolerated. Extreme liberal media would all be rounded up and jailed, rioters would be put down with all means necessary including, lethal force. The attempted coup d'etat by Democrats thru the bogus impeachments, 2 of them would have been put down as well and all plotters, arrested, jailed and promptly tried. Probably, sentenced to death by firing squad and executed promptly. As for corruption, Democrats have everyone beat. Are you telling us you do not know Hillary Clinton got millions from Putin? How about Joe and Hunter Biden's activities in Ukraine. Insider trading by members of Congress including, Nancy Pelosi? President Donald Trump is 20 times the leader any of the Democrats will ever be even all of them consulted each other. His numerous achievements alone in his 4 years dwarf anything the Democrats have done under Obama in 8 years. Not even considering Democrats have done squat all their years in Congress?

 

[Tsing Tao]

actually, the biggest blow ups are in GOP led states that pushed for early re-opening & saw masks as some sort of political issue, while dem cities that saw the most demonstrations aren't doing all that bad. It's surging, but let's not blame asinine GOP policy to suck up to Donnie on the demonstrations.

You're going to look like an idiot when the virus has a second round in other states that just happened to open up later. But then, you usually look like an idiot so there won't be much of a difference.

 

[Tsing Tao]

I looked in other places but I've worked off and on along the Space Coast since the early 80s so I have a little familiarity. I still occasionally do contract work there.

I love Florida, warts and all.

I know things have changed but it used to have a sort of wildness. Just an anecdote but I remember when you could be driving while swilling a bottle of Jack with a loaded handgun sitting on the dashboard in Florida and not be breaking any laws. Never lived anywhere quite so free, even overseas.

To be sure I don't swill Jack or carry a loaded handgun on my dashboard but you know what I mean if you've lived there a long time. I've rejected living in Cocoa Beach because it all got built up with resorts and more condos and I don't even recognize the place.

Yeah, that's more like Wyoming now

 

[Tsing Tao]

Fuck your shutdowns....

we are moving into Phase 2 reopening here because we lockdown quickly and followed the CDC guidelines and moved to masks and gloves and stores and social distancing.

All you fools in states where people were spitting on each other all over the beaches and bars and restaurants crying hoaxes and whining over "Mah rights" are the ones getting fucked.

Mass - virginia are all seing major declines in cases, deaths and hospitalizations so we aint locking down shit.

Enjoy the denial Southerners because your Governors are going to panic and shut you down now when it was so easy to do back then...

No one is getting fucked. Don't believe the hype. The panic isn't on the ground. I walk around Tampa, downtown and the suburbs every single day. I see no panic AT ALL.

 

[BeautifulStranger]

Shutdowns are unconstitutional

Not under a legal declaration of national emergency, in my opinion. However, it does not have to come down to that. If PPE is required, and you or your underage children do not comply, your driving pivilege is suspended and the associated vehicle is impounded. No wear PPE in a grocery store? Criminal charges. Seems draconian, but if one is willing to be a portable bioweapon in a particularly sensitive area, there needs to be a downside for such behavior.

Remember, the goal is to get rid of Coronavirus with the least economic harm and least long term inconvenience as possible.