Should school kids be issued guns in America?
- Thread starter UsualName
- Start date
As I said, my concern is with the ethics and if the decision to try him as an adult and if this is inline with the states justice or was this a prosecutor sort of looking to make a mark. To me this shooter exhibited juvenile behavior in the lead up to the shooting and there was massive failures from the parental side. And as you mentioned, moving this shooting through the juvenile system doesn’t necessarily preclude full sentencing, I’m just not sure where he is in his development makes an adult jail/prison the appropriate place for him at this time.
Problem is wh at if that day is when the had a meeting with the parents to say that their kid is expressing concerning behaviors and probably should get some help and then he leaves and comes back and shoots up the school.
It is really hard to imply an obligation or requirement on the school in these cases because as you pointed out before, should they panic and throw the kid out if he was looking at ammo on his phone? Schools also do not extend to monitor social media.
Once clear case is if a fellow student told the principal the kid said he was going home to get his gun and the principal did NOTHING then their might be serious civil liability for lawsuits and schools have more money than parents of the shooters
.It is hard, but, as I said, I just want to see what the schools utterances to each other and state of mind was at that meeting. If, as is quite possible, he was of many troubled kids and their parents in for a meeting as one of usual parade of troubled kids meeting over the year then that is one thing.
But if people are saying things like, "this kid scares the shiite out of me. He has done xyz, and now a,b,c has happened and another student complained that he was talking about shooting and drawing pictures of bloody people. Then they could end out in a position where many would conclude that they an obligation to report/consult with law enforcement. We don't know. But the don't get a pass just passed on the fact that many circumstances do not rise to that level. It is what actually happened that day and what they/the school have to say for themselves. They might have done a great job throwing together a highly responsive meeting to a situation based on what they knew at the time. I don't know. They are in the chain of events though and are rightfully under the microscope so they need to have something good to say for themselves or else they will go from being under the microscope to being in the crosshairs.
That is not exactly what I said.
I said, and posted the statute, that says HE WILL BE SENTENCED as an adult if convicted.
When you say "does not necessarily preclude full sentencing" you are implying that other choices are available to the court on the murder charges or that if he is convicted in juvenile court that lesser kiddie sentences are available to him that are not available in adult court. There are not. If there is variation in sentencing as there is from adult to adult there could be that. But variation based on being prosecuted as a juvenile versus an adult. No.
He has a couple gun possession charges where being a juvenile might make a difference but we know that we are talking about the major charges.
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As I said several times above, the school officials are all set as long as they have good answers to predictable questions. If not......well......
Michigan school officials had legal grounds to search shooting suspect's backpack and locker but did not, prosecutor says
(CNN)School officials in Michigan had legal grounds to search shooting suspect Ethan Crumbley's backpack and locker but did not do so, Oakland County Prosecutor Karen McDonald told CNN on Monday.
McDonald didn't say why such a search was not conducted, but noted, "We don't know exactly if that weapon was in his bag, where it was, we just know it was in the school and he had access to it."
When asked if school staff members might be prosecuted, McDonald replied to CNN's Brianna Keilar, "We haven't ruled out charging anyone."
https://www.cnn.com/2021/12/06/us/michigan-oxford-high-school-shooting-monday/index.html
Michigan school officials had legal grounds to search shooting suspect's backpack and locker but did not, prosecutor says
(CNN)School officials in Michigan had legal grounds to search shooting suspect Ethan Crumbley's backpack and locker but did not do so, Oakland County Prosecutor Karen McDonald told CNN on Monday.
McDonald didn't say why such a search was not conducted, but noted, "We don't know exactly if that weapon was in his bag, where it was, we just know it was in the school and he had access to it."
When asked if school staff members might be prosecuted, McDonald replied to CNN's Brianna Keilar, "We haven't ruled out charging anyone."
https://www.cnn.com/2021/12/06/us/michigan-oxford-high-school-shooting-monday/index.html
Problem is wh at if that day is when the had a meeting with the parents to say that their kid is expressing concerning behaviors and probably should get some help and then he leaves and comes back and shoots up the school.
It is really hard to imply an obligation or requirement on the school in these cases because as you pointed out before, should they panic and throw the kid out if he was looking at ammo on his phone? Schools also do not extend to monitor social media.
Once clear case is if a fellow student told the principal the kid said he was going home to get his gun and the principal did NOTHING then their might be serious civil liability for lawsuits and schools have more money than parents of the shooters
This whole spiel of cons trying to hold the school accountable as part of their whole war on school districts is absolutely chicken shit behavior
Families of those killed can seek civil litigation against the school but Prosecutors can seek criminal charges against the specific individuals at the school such as the "counselor" to decided it was OK for the kid to go back to his classroom while at the same time was so alarmed to request a meeting with the Parents and tell the Parents they had 48hrs to get mental help for the kid.
My point, if a counselor can see that they needed to have an in person meeting with the Parents and then give the Parents 48hrs to get help for the kid...
- This implies the school knew there was a big problem with that kid...enough of a problem that it scared the school counselor.
Someone definitely at the school will be fired and face criminal charges (e.g. school counselor) and the families of those killed will sue the ass off the school for their dereliction in protecting students at the school.
The teachers did what they were suppose to do...they alerted the school counselor and that's when the ball was dropped considering the school counselor failed to alert the Principal of the school. The result of that...the school Principle didn't alert the local Police department nor alert child social services.
wrbtrader
That was the first thing I thought.
The school district is gonna have to pay the parents of those kids that died, I'll bet any amount of money. Millions.