Several hundred percent return a year?

you are right magna. And I was not underplaying 200%, that's very nice. I was only putting things in perspective and specifically for traders who want to live from this. However, 50% or 100% is a lot already depending on your account size and might be the minimum you need to live from this activity.
And I recall some members saying that 20% was impossible year in year out. So imagine how new traders can be confused with this. Again, the confusion comes from adding the profits to the account or not. You can't do that forever. That's what they meant with 20% impossible for, let's say 20 years. Then there was argument regarding what is the maximum you can compound etc..

I am not going into that. A pro removes profits from his/her account. It is easier to manager (your size does not increase) and if you hit a bad streak (and it always happen) you loose little.
I did read about some market wizards loosing all though. Well, they aren't pro anymore !
You must increase until a certain size compatible with your system, objective and markets you trade. after that, just milk the cow, don't loose it.

P2 is an example of good trader with unorthodox method (GNP). but it is systematic and gives him an edge. P2, did you start putting a cap on your portfolio and size yet or not ? I hope so, because you are doing great and shared with others on top of that.

tntneo
 
Tutneo, my account is acutally still not significant. After taxes, it will be quite small again unfortunately. I was planning to top my account out perminantly at about 50k more in my trading account. At which point I'll open a second account for longer term trades and sweep my monthly gains into that account at the end of the month. That's the reason that I'm doing a lot of research now on valuation analysis and other metrics that I never even thought to consider a few months ago. I'm not sure how I'll do on this type of trading, but I assume that I'll do about the same as I do now. I find that many times I buy a bottom, and sell after a 2 pt or so gain, only to watch the stock slowly creep up for a few weeks after. It has always been in my interests however to take the quick profits as about 60% of the gain comes in the first 2 days of the bounceback and the rest takes a few more weeks. I would prefer that my trading account remains liquid so I can take advantage of the next opportunity, however in a longer term account, I won't need to trade it so much, and can take larger gains on larger positions most likely. Im not sure how this will work, so that's why I'm looking at valuation stuff so I can determine which stocks have just made the first in a series of bottoms, and which stocks have truely bottomed out and can sustain multiweek rebounds. I guess the only way to know is to watch it for a few months/years, and see if i can do what I think I can. I think a perfect example of what I intend to do is pvn. I have a few in my trading account (i'm not really that confident yet) but I'd take a few here in a longer term account, with the hope of buying more under 5 as I think it makes a run at some time to the double digits in the next 6 months or so.
I have also found that especially with the new 4X margin rules, I almost never use all my capital intraday. The only example that I can even think of in the last 3 months or so is on the day of the dow bottoming, I margined out on IBM, GE, MU and a few other using market on open orders and made like 10+% on my account in 30 mins.
 
In general - I find such claims to be ludicrous. To the extent that they are credible and shared with the general public - that negates whatever advantage ever existed.
 
JS

Since you say you've heard this guy at a seminar before what can you share about his trading methods, pros and cons. Did you get anything worthwhile out of what he shared about his trading methods? Quicksilver had some other good questions as well, such as what does he trade, futures, stocks, options, etc and what is his time frame daytrading or swingtrading?



Tradin4profit

In reply to your question about what David LaCroix is going to teach on this Paltalk chat that evening I'll post what was in the email I received below (also he is going to have a Powerpoint presentation that he will send to you by email if you want to see visually what he is talking about as he does this presentation) :

Here's a cut and paste from the email

During the web cast, David will share:
1. Three specific patterns that have an incredible accuracy and
reliability that can be applied in your trading immediately.

2. An easy to read, nearly fail safe, Capital preservation exit
strategy

3. A unique Candle Stick exist strategy called the "deposit slip"

4. A little known continuation profit pattern not discussed in any
books

5. David will also have some of his students on the web cast who can share their success following his approach. One student has made over $50,000 in 7 weeks with an initial account of $75,000. An amazing 70% return and an accuracy rate of 90% on his picks.

For the October 23rd web cast with David Lacroix there will be a
POWERPOINT presentation to go along with the web chat. If you plan on attending this PalTalk chat email rdima2000@yahoo.com to request a copy of the Powerpoint presentation so you can follow along with David as he goes through his presentation and goes through the chart examples.
 
Originally posted by Cerebus
JS

"incredible accuracy and reliability that can be applied in your trading immediately"

"nearly fail safe"

"profit pattern not discussed in any books"

"An amazing 70% return and an accuracy rate of 90%"
More...

These acclamations are tell-tale signs of a rather poorly-done scam. Its almost funny how easily you can tell.
 
They were having problems with paltalk and did not catch every word or sentence that he was saying. He is supposed to speak again and hopefully paltalk will be working better. What he did say sounded good, something about MA's. However I remember him saying that he charges a exorbitant amount of money for even one evening. You'll just have to listen to the seminar.
 
Following the link below, you'll be able to gain some valuable insight on the top 100 trading programs - run by professional traders ( CTA's ) in the US.

These traders manage assets worth millions of $ - not necessarily trading stocks, but index-futures, commodities etc.

You can find a great deal of info about their trading-philosophies, background, and , of course about their past and current performance.

One of the highest ranking firms in terms of consistent profit was able to achieve an average monthly return of 4.72% on their tradingcapital over a period of 60 months.

Annual Return averages about 32%. In it's best year, 1998, the firm made 178%. YTD the firm is up 32%. Still, this firm's program had to withstand drawdowns of up to 50% for certain periods.

The firm with the highest YTD 2001 return managed to make 37.65% ( annualized about 49.2% ) with assets now at 12 Mio $
( by begin of 2001, assets were under 2 Mio $ ).

The most consistent firm had 80% profitable months over the last 5 years period ( performance : - 8% YTD though ).

Please notice, that these firms / traders, are not stock fund managers - they are traders in the futures & commodities markets. Many firms are only 1 or 2 man-shows.

I think, this website provides a pretty good impression of what even a top trader can expect to make in terms of % p.y. once a certain account size is reached.

Yes, it is possible to make triple digit returns - but only very few pro's seem to be able to realize that consistently. Especially, when account sizes grow, strategies become more and more conservative in order to preserve capital and grow it with only modest risk.

Many of these top ranking firms/ traders employ completely technical based, systematic trading models and combine them with very tight and strict money- and risk managment rules.

http://iasg.pertrac2000.com/mainframe.asp?

regards
 
I don't know why everyone is so skeptical of this guy. Are you afraid of success? I'm sure he has audited account statements to back up his modest claims. And so what if top professional traders can't duplicate it. They did not have access to his magic method. Basically, it is very easy for people with no trading experience to take a short seminar, invest a few thousand dollars, and totally humiliate seasoned professional traders. Didn't a lot of people get rich following that Wade Cook guy?
 
AAA,

Thanks for clarifying it for me. Before I was reluctant, but now -- I don't know -- I just feel like diving in and getting rich. I mean, after all, I'm willing to be rich so damnit why shouldn't I be? :cool:
 
I have a question for the skeptics. If a guy started his account at $25,000.00 every january and proceeded to make at least $100,000.00 with that account for the last few years would you belive him if he told you he did it very short term trading NYSE stocks.
 
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