I would believe him, it's not that hard.
Several hundred percent return a year?
- Thread starter Cerebus
- Start date
Magna
Administrator
jem,
If a guy started his account at $25,000.00 every january and proceeded to make at least $100,000.00 with that account for the last few years...
Is it possible to quadruple your account, year in and year out (starting with the same $25K each year)? Of course, just about anything is possible. Would I believe someone simply because they claimed it? Nope. Call me a skeptic, but I'd need to see audited results.
If a guy started his account at $25,000.00 every january and proceeded to make at least $100,000.00 with that account for the last few years...
Is it possible to quadruple your account, year in and year out (starting with the same $25K each year)? Of course, just about anything is possible. Would I believe someone simply because they claimed it? Nope. Call me a skeptic, but I'd need to see audited results.
Magna
Administrator
P2,
I would believe him, it's not that hard.
I guess to Michael Jordan scoring 40 pts a game is not that hard either. But lets get serial here, is it possible, yes, is it hard, a resounding YES. If it weren't hard then more than 1% or 2% (at best) of the hundreds of thousands of traders would be quadrupling their accounts. We've got some pretty good experienced traders on this board, how many can honestly say they've multiplied their total account value X4 this year???
I would believe him, it's not that hard.
I guess to Michael Jordan scoring 40 pts a game is not that hard either. But lets get serial here, is it possible, yes, is it hard, a resounding YES. If it weren't hard then more than 1% or 2% (at best) of the hundreds of thousands of traders would be quadrupling their accounts. We've got some pretty good experienced traders on this board, how many can honestly say they've multiplied their total account value X4 this year???
Magna: âWe've got some pretty good experienced traders on this board, how many can honestly say they've multiplied their total account value X4 this year?â
I think Iâm good. I know Iâm experienced. And I can honestly say... I have not quadrupled my trading equity this year. I hope you guys wonât think any less of me in the morning.
Great post, Magna.
I think Iâm good. I know Iâm experienced. And I can honestly say... I have not quadrupled my trading equity this year. I hope you guys wonât think any less of me in the morning.
Great post, Magna.
this goes back to the same old arguments and what I call "pipe
dreams" of some young wanna bees. No offense.
For reality check see the average returns of the best hedge
funds. Some years they had a 90-100% some they have 14%,
the average mutual fund is about 25-30%. Of course there are exceptions. (data available on the net, no reference from me)
Year in year out you would have difficulty returning triple digits.
For one - would you trade the same way when you have 250k
than when start out with 50k ?? Of course not. Some guys may
have 10k get a little reckless trade sp500 index and now he has
100k. Fine that's an accident not the norm !!!!
Now he has 100k, will he trade the same way ?? Only if he
is crazy !!! He would be happy with the 30% every year - this
is not bad and CAN BE DONE CONSISTENTLY. This is the single most and only forbidding fact that trades overlook when they "turn pro". More you shoot for easier that the "gambler's ruin" will be upon you. (see stats and ref. for poker and trading)
By the way anyone who knows a trader who started with 10k
and made 100k - I like to meet him/her. (garry smith is unique
in this plus he can prove it !!!!)
Also notice I did not factor in living expense and withdrawing
funds.-
dreams" of some young wanna bees. No offense.
For reality check see the average returns of the best hedge
funds. Some years they had a 90-100% some they have 14%,
the average mutual fund is about 25-30%. Of course there are exceptions. (data available on the net, no reference from me)
Year in year out you would have difficulty returning triple digits.
For one - would you trade the same way when you have 250k
than when start out with 50k ?? Of course not. Some guys may
have 10k get a little reckless trade sp500 index and now he has
100k. Fine that's an accident not the norm !!!!
Now he has 100k, will he trade the same way ?? Only if he
is crazy !!! He would be happy with the 30% every year - this
is not bad and CAN BE DONE CONSISTENTLY. This is the single most and only forbidding fact that trades overlook when they "turn pro". More you shoot for easier that the "gambler's ruin" will be upon you. (see stats and ref. for poker and trading)
By the way anyone who knows a trader who started with 10k
and made 100k - I like to meet him/her. (garry smith is unique
in this plus he can prove it !!!!)
Also notice I did not factor in living expense and withdrawing
funds.-
I think i'm decent, not good, definately not great, Im up almost 200% with a bit over 2 months to go. I hope to score 250-300 by the end of this year. I would think that if i can get close to that figure of 400%, a quality trader could definately do it. This is especially true of the fact that my slippage is significantly greater on a few k positoin than on someone who's only taking a few hundred shares. I know for a fact that if given 25k, I could do it, or get very close (maybe like 80-90k at least). You also have to factor in option trading (which wasn't included in the origional example) I have made 600% before on an intraday option scalp. So I know it's possible to make a few thousand % on out of the money options if you hit one right.
The origional example said just short term nyse trading. Look at the example of gx. I doubled my money on that trade (I only took a small position though). If I were given 25k, I would have dumped most of it into something like gx and have been half way there.
I think to rule something out like that is not right, I think it's difficult to turn those types of gains, but not impossible. Don't foget that I know someone who used to make a few hundred % annually trading a multimillion dollar account and trading just csco. He would sometimes take positions of 50k+ in it for intraday scalps, and he did no overnights.
I have learned that in trading, nothing is impossible, and there's always someone who's better at it than you thought could be possible. The surprising thing is that often the best traders keep the lowest profiles.
The origional example said just short term nyse trading. Look at the example of gx. I doubled my money on that trade (I only took a small position though). If I were given 25k, I would have dumped most of it into something like gx and have been half way there.
I think to rule something out like that is not right, I think it's difficult to turn those types of gains, but not impossible. Don't foget that I know someone who used to make a few hundred % annually trading a multimillion dollar account and trading just csco. He would sometimes take positions of 50k+ in it for intraday scalps, and he did no overnights.
I have learned that in trading, nothing is impossible, and there's always someone who's better at it than you thought could be possible. The surprising thing is that often the best traders keep the lowest profiles.
this year was much tougher and I know guys who tripled accounts one year ago and two years ago who are just making a little bit of money this year. But let me explain. When you trade a firm that gives you ten to one leverage or more. You generally sweep your account back to the minimum every few months. Most people sweep them to start the year. Now, if you were to go to some of the firms, I know, you would find guys who made 100,000 200,000 and even double and triple that over the past few years.
Now they were not making 3 or 4 times the money they made lthe year before, but they were making 5 to 10 times or more on the $25,000.00.
(By the way to respond to the challenge, I know guys who started with no k and had to give away 50% of their profits and still made 100K for themselves last year. Two of the guys were in my office and I personally made money because of it. )
These claims are not fantastic they were just the result of an easy market. Most guys are not making that kind of money this year. (Perhaps due to decimals and lack of fund craziness)
Now, what I am impressed by are the claims I hear about floor traders in the pits in Chicago. And because most professionals accounts are not retail accounts most pros sweep their accounts on a frequent basis. Consequently, I am willing to bet you would see astonishing returns from the successful traders in the Chicago pits.
Now they were not making 3 or 4 times the money they made lthe year before, but they were making 5 to 10 times or more on the $25,000.00.
(By the way to respond to the challenge, I know guys who started with no k and had to give away 50% of their profits and still made 100K for themselves last year. Two of the guys were in my office and I personally made money because of it. )
These claims are not fantastic they were just the result of an easy market. Most guys are not making that kind of money this year. (Perhaps due to decimals and lack of fund craziness)
Now, what I am impressed by are the claims I hear about floor traders in the pits in Chicago. And because most professionals accounts are not retail accounts most pros sweep their accounts on a frequent basis. Consequently, I am willing to bet you would see astonishing returns from the successful traders in the Chicago pits.
praetorian: âI think i'm decent, not good, definately not great, Im up almost 200% with a bit over 2 months to go.â
Iâd say youâre a lot better than âdecentâ if youâre up 200% on sizeable starting capital and you continue to do that year after year.
âIf I were given 25k, I would have dumped most of it into something like gx and have been half way there.â
If this is the way that you normally trade then I donât find it surprising that you can pull in some big numbers. I just hope that newer undercapitalized traders donât follow your example of what constitutes acceptable risk and diversification.
When someone throws out a big number and you follow it with up with a âit's not that hardâ, I think youâre just setting a lot of the newer guys up for unrealistic expectations.
As Magna said: ââ¦is it possible, yes, is it hard, a resounding YES.â
You may personally find that âitâs not that hardâ, but Iâm afraid that, judging by the percentage of new traders that fail and the percentage of professionals that fall far short of hitting that mark year after year, the numbers just arenât with you on this one.
âI know someone who used to make a few hundred % annually trading a multimillion dollar accountâ¦â
IMHO, It should be irrelevant to a newer trader what the best trader or traders are pulling down. If a newer trader deals with the basics, the rest will fall into place. Itâs not as if we replaced the âitâs a frigginâ breeze to make 200-400%â with âyou can make some really good money if you know what youâre doingâ, that weâd be at risk of setting the bar too low for prospective traders. In fact, it might help new traders to shift the focus onto appropriate risk control so that they can survive long enough to learn the game and have a decent chance to achieve their dream of shooting for the stars.
Iâd say youâre a lot better than âdecentâ if youâre up 200% on sizeable starting capital and you continue to do that year after year.
âIf I were given 25k, I would have dumped most of it into something like gx and have been half way there.â
If this is the way that you normally trade then I donât find it surprising that you can pull in some big numbers. I just hope that newer undercapitalized traders donât follow your example of what constitutes acceptable risk and diversification.
When someone throws out a big number and you follow it with up with a âit's not that hardâ, I think youâre just setting a lot of the newer guys up for unrealistic expectations.
As Magna said: ââ¦is it possible, yes, is it hard, a resounding YES.â
You may personally find that âitâs not that hardâ, but Iâm afraid that, judging by the percentage of new traders that fail and the percentage of professionals that fall far short of hitting that mark year after year, the numbers just arenât with you on this one.
âI know someone who used to make a few hundred % annually trading a multimillion dollar accountâ¦â
IMHO, It should be irrelevant to a newer trader what the best trader or traders are pulling down. If a newer trader deals with the basics, the rest will fall into place. Itâs not as if we replaced the âitâs a frigginâ breeze to make 200-400%â with âyou can make some really good money if you know what youâre doingâ, that weâd be at risk of setting the bar too low for prospective traders. In fact, it might help new traders to shift the focus onto appropriate risk control so that they can survive long enough to learn the game and have a decent chance to achieve their dream of shooting for the stars.
I found out what he trades. His presentation he's doing is on technical analysis on stocks for trading options which he is supposed to be making several hundred percent a year with just that trading method which is what his topic will be on. He also trades other things as well such as futures and currencies which will not be a part of the discussion I was told for this chat on Oct. 23rd on Paltalk.