Serious question..

VEGASDESERT said:
I'm just asking,

If Biden can draw at best a couple hundred poeple to hear him
speak, what makes you think the polls are accurate?

How can that be?

Remember Obama used to pack football stadiums?
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It used to be said of Presidential candidates that Democrats fall in love and Republicans fall in line. I don’t think that adage applies anymore.

Trump fever has spread faster than Covid at a Trump rally. If you’re for Trump you’re all in. There’s a video of meth head praying to Donald Trump to save him from the police. This is about a third of the electorate - these are the people that will vote for Trump if he shot someone on fifth avenue. So, yes, they will go to super spreader events and rallies for Trump. It’s a cult.

Hillary Clinton did not have that kind of cult following and neither does Biden. However, Trump with his massive rallies is the president because of 80,000 votes spread across 3 states.

So, no, Trump’s rallies only indicate he is as vulnerable as his win last time - which was a very, very weak win.
 
Tsing Tao said:
First, you don't get the right to tell me how I should think or how I should vote. At all. Period.

Second, people vote for who they trust and it is difficult to trust a blowhard and an overt liar. Whether or not it is an "act" as people try to say, I don't care. Its an act I despise and it pisses me off every time I see it. If Trump hadn't had a really good debate the last go around I'd already have voted for Biden based on his first, pathetic performance in debate.

And lastly, I've already stated that I acknowledge that disregarding the policy position would mean I am going with my ego's choice, and this is far more than the average voter is considering when they make this choice, I can assure you.
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Are you telling me that Joe Biden is not a liar? and doesn't have a big ego?

Come on maaaaan!

Joe Biden is the broken down old (never had a job) dem version of trump.


I know he finished top of his class and all.. oh wait.
 
UsualName said:
So, no, Trump’s rallies only indicate he is as vulnerable as his win last time - which was a very, very weak win.
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By the numbers it was a weak win.

Out in the real world, it was a stunning victory. He came in as an outsider and beat both the bush and clinton machines to get there along with both the rnc and the dnc working against him.

Versus Hillary and Biden who have been slogging around DC and running for president for decades.
 
VEGASDESERT said:
Are you telling me that Joe Biden is not a liar? and doesn't have a big ego?

Come on maaaaan!

Joe Biden is the broken down old (never had a job) dem version of trump.


I know he finished top of his class and all.. oh wait.
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All politicians are liars. If you have a politician who goes back 47 years, it would be impossible not to find statements they made no longer true today. All people are liars. You lie, I lie whenever it suits us. But some are worse and do it more arrogantly than others.
 
Tsing Tao said:
All politicians are liars. If you have a politician who goes back 47 years, it would be impossible not to find statements they made no longer true today. All people are liars. You lie, I lie whenever it suits us. But some are worse and do it more arrogantly than others.
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good thing you know when trump is lying, the pols that do it well (and not challenged) are more dangerous.

"If you like your health care plan, you'll be able to keep your health care plan"

not
 
TreeFrogTrader said:
By the numbers it was a weak win.

Out in the real world, it was a stunning victory. He came in as an outsider and beat both the bush and clinton machines to get there along with both the rnc and the dnc working against him.

Versus Hillary and Biden who have been slogging around DC and running for president for decades.
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I got no no “quarms” with any of this.
 
Tsing Tao said:
I absolutely respect this position you have, more than I can communicate.

I am totally struggling with this decision and its taken a life of its own in my deliberations.

On one hand with Trump I have an individual who I absolutely loathe as a person. Can't stand his empty speeches stuffed with "filler words" like "great" and "stupid" and "the best ever" and all sorts of hyperbolic nonsense targeted to people with an IQ under 100. He lies - almost constantly - and exaggerates. He will say he didn't say something when someone plays a tape of him saying that very precise thing. But yet he supports policies I support and will fight to ensure they are passed. He defends law and soldiers, and opposes violence and extremism from progressive that shouldn't be tolerated in any civil society.

On the other hand there is Joe, someone who I like as a person, a regular type of guy (personality-wise) and who has traditionally been a moderate in the democratic party. But he's been pulled way, way to the left by his handlers and he supports many of the ideas I find loathsome and frightening. While it is possible he may hold to the center after being elected, I don't believe that is the game plan with the democratic party. I believe they intend to take him out through incompetency actions - and from what I see in Biden's behavior, I think he's about 8 years beyond when he should have run. He just doesn't have the mental capacity for the job, and its sad. So now he keeps quiet when his party pushes extremism ideas, and as a result, he's for these ideas. Then they went and picked Kamala who has a very real chance of becoming President because of Biden's issues. And that is a huge problem with me.

So do I make it about me and vote for the person I like better? To do so is a choice based on ego. My desire is more important than what is good for the country? Or do I supplant my ego and cast a vote for the guy who disgusts me, because he is the better choice - not for me - but for the country?

My wife already voted for Trump. She asked me if I was going to go vote with her and I told her I hadn't made my choice. It was a significant stress point in our house. Still is.
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It's easier for me, because I lean left. I have voted for a lot of Republicans at the state level though, because I've seen Democrats completely mismanage their states (like CT where I'm originally from). I did not feel raising corporate taxes was the way to go and I supported DeSantis over Gillum. I felt uneducated about who was running down ballot this year and only voted for the presidency/state amendments. I did not vote for my congresswoman (who will win easily since it's the city of Tampa), because she never responded to my question I emailed to her about her position on a FTT. I'm not a partisan and don't vote straight party tickets. I too feel the Democrats need to take a tougher stand against the violence/rioting/looting in our cities. I also feel Trump needs to take a tougher stand against right-wing extremists. I feel bad for local business owners that had their businesses hurt by them this summer in Tampa. That's the responsibility of local officials more than the president though.

For president, I would have had a harder time with voting for Bernie who's way to the left of me on economic issues. I would be much more afraid of his potential for executive overreach. I can make a conservative case for Biden though if you think future years out. While he's more liberal than me on most fiscal issues, I do think Biden is an institutionalist who respects the norms of the Senate even though many in the Democratic Party are trying to push him to the left. My view is that if Biden wins he's going to have a very slim majority for him in the Senate. It's going to be anything from +1 GOP to +3 Dems (IA,ME,NC, and GA will decide this). I think there's enough moderate Democrats who will protect the filibuster if that's the case. If Trump wins the Senate map is really bad for Republicans in 2022. Since we know historically that midterms typically bring backlash to the incumbent it would set up 2024 pretty well for the Democrats. If Trump wins in 2020 he will drag down whoever is running in 2024 as they will have to fully embrace him to get through the primaries. Whoever comes out of the Democratic primary might be much further to the left in 2024 as they'll argue that the establishment moderates couldn't get it done after defeating Bernie.

For SCOTUS, it's very likely that Trump will not get to appoint another justice if elected. Thomas is only 72 years old. He's showing no signs of retirement. Breyer is 82 and looks to be able to stay in office 4 more years. There will be pressure for him to retire if Biden wins, but that won't change the balance of SCOTUS.

Another thing I feel is that if Trump wins, it's very likely there will be no constraint on spending. He and Congressional Democrats are much more willing to spend than Senate Republicans (even though they're much more willing to spend under a Trump presidency than an Obama one). It will be like Bush 2007-2008 where the budget ballooned with a Democratic Congress and Republican president. No new taxes, just unconstrained spending increasing our debt to GDP ratio higher and putting the question of our fiscal stability in jeopardy. There will definitely be high levels of spending under Biden, but there will also be tax increases. You may not agree with the tax increases, but I think it's a lot worse to spend like drunken sailors without increasing taxes. I've always felt a Democratic Congress and Republican POTUS was the worst combination for the debt though.
 
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