Seems liks day trading is all but finished!

Quote from I Missed Boat:



But to imply that the market is getting better, and that for someone struggling the market being tough is merely his or her "perception," is stupid.
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Missing the Boat,

What is stupid is your contention that I said or implied the market is getting better, which I did not - if you are going to paraphrase me and insult my ideas, please at least be accurate.

The ones with tenacity and the ability to accurately self-appraise will modify their style/habits to accomodate the Market and adjust.

The ones that want to look outside themselves and blame the market for being too tough to trade will perish, because it's just not true. The market IS NOT too tough to trade. It's simply not the same as it once may have been. And these folks can't penetrate their own pride and admit that they may need to change.

Perhaps a trader who wants badly enough (like me) to make it no matter what will attempt to find out why what used to work isn't working any more and adapt themselves instead of assigning outside blame. So you see, I have the willingness to seek out ways to improve - it doesn't matter what type of market someone thinks it is.

I.E. A trader who fades false breakouts and is doing well now - would they think the "market is tougher?" How about short-sellers? It is worse for them?

Winning at ANYTHING is largely about our perception. And our drive to seek out and exploit new opportunites and be willing to ask for help and guidance with an open mind.

Tenacity will always prevail in the end when combined with the Truth.

Respectfully,

Paul

PS: NONE OF THESE IDEAS ARE ORIGINALLY MINE - I HAVE BORROWED THEM FROM WINNERS EVERYWHERE, INCLUDING HERE ON THIS SITE - THANKS TO ALL WHO HAVE HELPED ME.
 
Quote from slapshot:

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Quote from candletrader:

Day trading is far from finished... its a game of adaptation... it's no longer a cakewalk, but it still can be an ATM if ya know which buttons to press and if you recognise and adapt to the fact that the ATM code changes every so often... having said that, one frustrating thing for me is that my commission to profits ratio has grown as a result of lower absolute price levels, and the need to up my size (to maintain historical profitability levels) to accomodate the reduced volatility...
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Good post candle. I agree.
 
Quote from bone:

I think you're MISSING THE BOAT with these gross generalizations that just because you're not making money that vis-a-vis most everyone else is.

Somebody's making money in this market.

Yes, it was very easy to come in and buy for a good part of the late 90's. And daytraders conditioned to a certain market may be slow to adjust. So what is whining getting you? How is that working out for you?

To be a successful trader - in other words, to be able to make a consistent living at it over the long haul, you'll have to learn to adapt to changing market conditions. Happens to me about about two or three times a year, and I've been doing this for twelve years.
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Who's "whining" here. I'm asking people to be realistic. I'm stating how the good majority of people are clearly doing, at least in equities! So for someone to state that the view that market conditions are worse is merely that individual's perception is absurd. Its not "whining" to refute a stupid statement pal!
 
Quote from slapshot:


On the contrary, it seems to be getting better and better for me - so it must all be YOUR PERCEPTION.
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If this isn't implying that the market is not especially tough for the general trading population (rathen than just for fourcups) then I don't know what is (other than coming out and saying it, but then you wouldn't simply be implying it, would you).


Missing the Boat,

What is stupid is your contention that I said or implied the market is getting better, which I did not - if you are going to paraphrase me and insult my ideas, please at least be accurate.

The ones with tenacity and the ability to accurately self-appraise will modify their style/habits to accomodate the Market and adjust.

The ones that want to look outside themselves and blame the market for being too tough to trade will perish, because it's just not true. The market IS NOT too tough to trade. It's simply not the same as it once may have been. And these folks can't penetrate their own pride and admit that they may need to change.

Perhaps a trader who wants badly enough (like me) to make it no matter what will attempt to find out why what used to work isn't working any more and adapt themselves instead of assigning outside blame. So you see, I have the willingness to seek out ways to improve - it doesn't matter what type of market someone thinks it is.

I.E. A trader who fades false breakouts and is doing well now - would they think the "market is tougher?" How about short-sellers? It is worse for them?

Winning at ANYTHING is largely about our perception. And our drive to seek out and exploit new opportunites and be willing to ask for help and guidance with an open mind.

Tenacity will always prevail in the end when combined with the Truth.

Respectfully,

Paul

PS: NONE OF THESE IDEAS ARE ORIGINALLY MINE - I HAVE BORROWED THEM FROM WINNERS EVERYWHERE, INCLUDING HERE ON THIS SITE - THANKS TO ALL WHO HAVE HELPED ME. [/B][/QUOTE]
 
Quote from I Missed Boat:

If this isn't implying that the market is not especially tough for the general trading population (rathen than just for fourcups) then I don't know what is (other than coming out and saying it, but then you wouldn't simply be implying it, would you).
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that was a definite case of implication. the market being less tradeable today (from an intraday perspective) is not mere 'perception' but veritable fact.

just ask all these "I'm having the best days of my life" traders whether they'd prefer the markets of two years ago, or even of one year ago, and the answer would be a resounding YES.

there's a lot more to it being worse, but even if was just, as candle mentioned, a case of profit:commission being a lot lower it is still a case of 'worse'.

daytrading has never been, except for a couple, few glorious years, able to offer very much more than the equivalent of a well paying job. if that's all one wants out of trading then that's fine. there's no doubt, however, that the big money -- and a few hundred K, make no mistake, is NOT 'big money' -- is made in the long terms.
 
i've heard some stories. a friend told me that he knew of traders in the seventies who were so frustrated that they'd break down and cry at their desks. this market is at least a tough as that one, perhaps more so. After all, a big part of the market has experienced a 1920's style sell off. decimals have only aggravated the problem.

but markets eventually turn. she will come back to life.
 
iam glad to see that some still feel the money is still out there! Then i know it is just me and will have to go back to my basics.When i look at my trades it seems my 1000-1500 size trades are good but my 4k-6k trades are NOT!! It is so hard for me to cut down my size .But i will have to do this if i want to survive this market.Iam not loseing money just not making enough.Mid day i seem to churn a part of the day away.My last 6 trading days 4 + 2- .Not a bad ratio but i was so use to only having 2 to 3 down days per month they have grown to 6-8.It's not p&l being down its just commish i write a ton of tickets but that is my game i will have to tweak my game.I feel iam as good as any but been very angry trading at times and i know THAT IS NOT GOOD!:mad:
 
Quote from chasinfla:

i've heard some stories. a friend told me that he knew of traders in the seventies who were so frustrated that they'd break down and cry at their desks. this market is at least a tough as that one, perhaps more so. After all, a big part of the market has experienced a 1920's style sell off. decimals have only aggravated the problem.

but markets eventually turn. she will come back to life.
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Well said Chas.

Anyone who thinks that the market is not much more difficult than we had gotten used to (spoiled) during the late 90's is either a genius or a liar.

I agree with Candle and others that this market is still presenting opportunities. If you can adapt to what is happening now, money can be made. And is. But without a doubt it is more difficult than ever in my experience (14 years). While it is true that being able to adapt has always been crucial, the lack of follow through, the meaninglessness of relative strength, and particularly the introduction of decimalization have all combined to make things tougher.

I find that for the most part even my very best (profitable) trades far too often put me through more gut wrenching than I wish to withstand. I find that I need to stay with my conviction that the trade was right and accept that my timing will virtually never be perfect. This causes me to have to expand my acceptable levels of pain. I cannot let myself get stopped out in as tight a range as I used to. And we all know that it ain't no fun having a position go against you no matter what the ultimate outcome.

That is just the way it is. It seems to me that getting stopped out has become more "throwing in the towel" than it ever was. And there is no fun in that ever. I can't complain about my results. My trading has been profitable pretty consistently for the past several months (although I did have a rough go of it for a while before my recent good streak). But it certainly is not a relaxing vocation. And there was a time not so long ago that it was. And there were times when it was apparent the best thing was to not trade at all. To wait for the market to "come to you". But more recently, waiting for just the "better days" and skipping the tough ones would mean never trading. So the willingness and ability to adapt, and perseverance are all we have on our side.

Peace,
:-)rs7
 
One thing i see and maybe i didn't state in in my first post.It seems we can still make some money but when we are so use to the 30k-50k months now to make 6k on a good month it is frustrating for me.I can do that in other business with less stress
 
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