Securing successful strategy from the broker stealing it

@volpri

Revealing your position only helps in pump and dump scenarios. Otherwise, you run the risk that the crowd joins you to push prices up, but decides to unload (close position) before your large size. Jim Simons was in stealth mode during late 2019 accumulating TSLA. You think he could not advertise (publicize) that he's accumulating TSLA shares so that the crowd join him?

You cannot play pump and dump with your broker, because they see your order before you place it. It only works to scam others (followers, copiers, etc).
 
I get what your saying but in practice exiting before someone else must be tough to do with any proximity without knowing when they are going to exit , and , in general , certainly on the long side lots of volume and activity is marginally beneficial. ( can brokers really see think and act on electronically transmitted orders from specific accounts? I know front running in a more general scalping sort of way happens , but from a targeted account sounds unlikely).
 
qaz said:
If the broker analyzes your trading and figures out your strategy (assuming good ROI and potential to scale), would they be placing the entry trade before you or after? If the broker does not figure out your strategy but copies your entry trades, and exits the position before you, who would be better off?
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It doesn’t matter. If he front runs me and places before I do I will see it on the chart. Price will move even quicker in the direction I am anticipating. It will show up. The chart doesn’t lie. So, I would be happy to follow his trade (or whoever's trade it might be). If he places the trade after or exactly with me then he will only help my position. It will move faster in my direction.

If he does not figure out my strategy and copies my entry but exits before me, if he is trading large enough size, that will just show up as a pause or PB that will likely just resume in the previous direction... so end of story ....I beat the broker in profits as I will likely hold and even add to my position thru the pause or PB caused by his profit taking. He will be happy and I will be happier.

I don’t care about front running or stop loss running. I know where I will place my SL and front running will show up, if it is big enough to. I only care about what price is doing on the chart and the pressures therein. May I ask who is winning this morning? Bears or bulls? Which side you want to be on?
 
shh said:
@volpri

Revealing your position only helps in pump and dump scenarios. Otherwise, you run the risk that the crowd joins you to push prices up, but decides to unload (close position) before your large size. Jim Simons was in stealth mode during late 2019 accumulating TSLA. You think he could not advertise (publicize) that he's accumulating TSLA shares so that the crowd join him?

You cannot play pump and dump with your broker, because they see your order before you place it. It only works to scam others (followers, copiers, etc).
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I scalp not accumulate massive positions. If I were accumulating massive positions obviously I would not advertise it until I had my position on as I would be pushing price up against myself and having to pay higher prices as I accumulated. Now once I got my position on ...well ....a little advertising would just tend to help me.
 
volpri said:
I scalp not accumulate massive positions. If I were accumulating massive positions obviously I would not advertise it until I had my position on as I would be pushing price up against myself and having to pay higher prices as I accumulated. Now once I got my position on ...well ....a little advertising would just tend to help me.
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For scalping, I do not know what happens. I have to think about it.
 
volpri said:
It doesn’t matter. If he front runs me and places before I do I will see it on the chart. Price will move even quicker in the direction I am anticipating. It will show up. The chart doesn’t lie. So, I would be happy to follow his trade (or whoever's trade it might be). If he places the trade after or exactly with me then he will only help my position. It will move faster in my direction.

If he does not figure out my strategy and copies my entry but exits before me, if he is trading large enough size, that will just show up as a pause or PB that will likely just resume in the previous direction... so end of story ....I beat the broker in profits as I will likely hold and even add to my position thru the pause or PB caused by his profit taking. He will be happy and I will be happier.

I don’t care about front running or stop loss running. I know where I will place my SL and front running will show up, if it is big enough to. I only care about what price is doing on the chart and the pressures therein. May I ask who is winning this morning? Bears or bulls? Which side you want to be on?
More...

When there is a party that front runs you, the trade dynamics has changed. Using the scenario you mentioned, if the broker following your trade exits before you, you would hold the position. Your scalping hold time increased. Your opportunity to get out at a good profit been dampened percentage wise. Scalper's profit margin is already so thin. If that is your only strategy and you trade full-time, you would likely need to find a 9-5 job again.

Still doubtful? Try posting your strategy to the r/algotrading reddit.
 
qaz said:
When there is a party that front runs you, the trade dynamics has changed. Using the scenario you mentioned, if the broker following your trade exits before you, you would hold the position. Your scalping hold time increased. Your opportunity to get out at a good profit been dampened percentage wise. Scalper's profit margin is already so thin. If that is your only strategy and you trade full-time, you would likely need to find a 9-5 job again.

Still doubtful? Try posting your strategy to the r/algotrading reddit.
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ah but my def of scalping is nontraditional. My opportunity to get out at a profit dampened? LOL. to the contrary it has offered me an opportunity for more profit by averaging down. My exit is not predicated upon my broker front running me on entries and exits. What he does is of no concern of mine and whatever he does will certainly be on the tape and show up in the chart. And if he doesn’t do it someone else will. It is not like he is gonna take me by surprise and I am left wringing my hands as sweat oozes from them.

Using your logic anybody could be front running me. Please do front run me. Especially with size.

Look I am going to hold or lock in profits when I believe it is time to do so. Front runners or no front runners.

I scalp by discretionary not algo’s.
 
volpri said:
ah but my def of scalping is nontraditional. My opportunity to get out at a profit dampened? LOL. to the contrary it has offered me an opportunity for more profit by averaging down. My exit is not predicated upon my broker front running me on entries and exits. What he does is of no concern of mine and whatever he does will certainly be on the tape and show up in the chart. And if he doesn’t do it someone else will. It is not like he is gonna take me by surprise and I am left wringing my hands as sweat oozes from them.

Using your logic anybody could be front running me. Please do front run me. Especially with size.

Look I am going to hold or lock in profits when I believe it is time to do so. Front runners or no front runners.

I scalp by discretionary not algo’s.
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If you are doing discretionary trades, then probably nothing much to be concerned about. Systematic traders are the ones that should be concerned.
 
Volpri , what if a broker ( or similer) work's out your strategy , tells the guy next to him , maybe some other trader or two that he know's rather well ( not unknown for a broker ), next thing you know it's common knowledge?
 
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