second amendment is a fundamental right?

By statute me and every other able bodied citizen of Virginia is a member of the militia.

Twentieth Century and the Present[edit]
The current Virginia Militia under Virginia Code § 44-1 states "The militia of the Commonwealth of Virginia shall consist of all able-bodied citizens of this Commonwealth and all other able-bodied persons resident in this Commonwealth who have declared their intention to become citizens of the United States, who are at least sixteen years of age and, except as hereinafter provided, not more than fifty-five years of age. The militia shall be divided into four classes, the National Guard, which includes the Army National Guard and the Air National Guard, the Virginia State Defense Force, the naval militia, and the unorganized militia."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virginia_militia
 
you are losing me with #2:

2)the unorganized militia, which consists of the members of the militia who are not members of the National Guard or the Naval Militia.

"Okay, now that we have that out of the way we can all agree that the "people" as individuals are an "unorganized militia".


i can't follow your logic here, would you pls clarify?

what was the definition of "militia" in the era of our founding fathers?

what did "militia" mean to them?
An unorganized militia is any group of armed people other than the U.S. military. There are of course, people that do this within the confines of the law, and then there are those that don't. Either way, I doubt that's much of a solution as even if congress came up with some law that required a person to be part of some militia, we would simply see militias popping up for people to join. Lets cut to the chase. What you really want to know is what does someone like me offer as a solution, as if my opinion matters to the criminals in congress. Okay, here goes.
1. No way, no how, should a person be able to go out today, buy a firearm and be able to bring it home with them same day. Any firearm, no exceptions. A federal and state background check must be done. Done in a reasonable time for a reasonable cost.
2. Once the background check is successfully completed a mandatory class must be taken. No exceptions. Part of the class is on the mechanics of the weapon. The rest, and frankly the bulk of the class should be on the personal responsibility of owning that weapon and the laws surrounding that.
Complete these two steps and now you're the proud owner of the weapon of your choice.

The argument of course is that this will not stop hardened criminals and terrorists. I agree. However, putting these steps into the process might stop the Adam Lanza types and perhaps just the guy who's really pissed off. Of course if the Adam Lanza types has a stupid cunt of a mother like he did, one that goes out and provides her bat-shit crazy kid with guns, well then you can't stop stupid. I still think it's worth the effort to try and prevent at least a portion of these horrific killings.
Will this perfectly reasonable precaution be taken? Absolutely not! Why? Because we don't trust this criminally corrupt government, that's why. They have lied to us repeatedly for decades about every god damn thing under the sun. They are not trustworthy, nor do they have the best interest of the people or this nation in their personal agenda. So fuck'em.
 
if gun training is ubiquitous and not a way to choke off gun ownership, I think what Captain Obvious just proposed can be reasonable.

In exchange I don't think legal or illegal immigrants should be allowed into the country until we can extremely effectively (close to 100%) screen out potential terrrorists
 
In other words, he got it right.
I believe he did in the end. His inalienable argument is very strong though some will object because it is based on English law. What Heller does not do is prevent government from banning certain types of firearms. Scalia speaks directly to this issue in his majority opinion.

Until, or unless, it is overturned or set aside in some way, Heller is the prevailing law re the Second Amendment. All gun rights advocates should read it so they can argue with the law behind them and not irrationally, as so many do. Banning semi-automatic assault rifles and large ammo clips, for example, according to Heller, would not violate our Second amendment rights. This is a key point that many, should I go as far as to say the "majority', of gun rights advocates obviously do not understand. The reason these types of semi-automatic firearms are not off the self is political and not because a ban would violate anyone's second amendment rights. Heller is very clear on this.

See... http://www.scotusblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/06/07-290.pdf
emphasis mine...
2. . Like most rights, the Second Amendment right is not unlimited.
It is not a right to keep and carry any weapon whatsoever in any
manner whatsoever and for whatever purpose
: For example, concealed weapons prohibitions have been upheld under the Amendment or state analogues. The Court’s opinion should not be taken to cast doubt on longstanding prohibitions on the possession of firearms by felons and the mentally ill, or laws forbidding the carrying of fire-arms in sensitive places such as schools and government buildings, or laws imposing conditions and qualifications on the commercial sale of arms. Miller’ s holding that the sorts of weapons protected are those “in common use at the time” finds support in the historical tradition of prohibiting the carrying of dangerous and unusual weapons.Pp. 54–56.
...
We are aware of the problem of handgun violence in this
country, and we take seriously the concerns raised by the
many amici who believe that prohibition of handgun ownership is a solution. The Constitution leaves the District of Columbia a variety of tools for combating that
problem, including some measures regulating handguns, see supra, at 54–55, and n. 26. But the enshrinement of constitutional rights necessarily takes certain policy choices off the table. These include the absolute prohibi-tion of handguns held and used for self-defense in the home. Undoubtedly some think that the Second Amendment is outmoded in a society where our standing army is the pride of our Nation, where well trained police forces provide personal security, and where gun violence is a serious problem. That is perhaps debatable, but what is not debatable is that it is not the role of this Court to pronounce the Second Amendment extinct. We affirm the judgment of the Court of Appeals.
...
We also recognize another important limitation on the
right to keep and carry arms.
Miller
said, as we have explained, that the sorts of weapons protected were those “in common use at the time.” 307 U. S., at 179. We think that limitation is fairly supported by the historical tradition of prohibiting the carrying of “dangerous and unusual weapons.”
 
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Perhaps you would care to elaborate with specific citations and quotes from that decision. for instance...


http://www.forbes.com/sites/frankmi...-case-strike-down-all-such-bans/#4e12fa7f4325


I believe he did in the end. His inalienable argument is very strong though some will object because it is based on English law. What Heller does not do is prevent government from banning certain types of firearms. Scalia speaks directly to this issue in his majority opinion.

Until, or unless, it is overturned or set aside in some way, Heller is the prevailing law re the Second Amendment. All gun rights advocates should read it so they can argue with the law behind them and not irrationally, as so many do. Banning semi-automatic assault rifles and large ammo clips, for example, according to Heller, would not violate our Second amendment rights. This is a key point that many, should I go as far as to say the "majority', of gun rights advocates obviously do not understand. The reason these types of semi-automatic firearms are not off the self is political and not because a ban would violate anyone's second amendment rights. Heller is very clear on this.
 
as you pretend that Scalia was disingenuous...
you left out the part of the argument that virtually shuts down your whole argument...
You either didn't read what I wrote or you didn't comprehend it. I made no argument for myself at all. What you claim I did is impossible. I simply summarized some of Scalia's arguments, and not all of them by any means. His opinion is more than 60 pages long!!!. You may read his arguments, in his words for yourself. I recommend that to you. Then I recommend that you write his widow giving your objections to the portions of his arguments that displease you.
I'm quite sure she will be pleased to hear from you.:D
 
what a childish response to a legitimate question. I did not yet call you a leftist pro publica soros funded distorter of facts. I simply asked a question to see if you were telling us the truth....

Pardon me for being a bit like a good academic or an attorney... but you did make arguments which should have citations to the page of the case. If you don't wish to supply it proper citation... we will judge your argumentation accordingly.

Here is your argument in proper form...


"Banning semi-automatic assault rifles and large ammo clips, for example, according to Heller, would not violate our Second amendment rights. ( 554 U.S. 570 __________. The page number goes where the blank is. )

This is a key point that many, should I go as far as to say the "majority', of gun rights advocates obviously do not understand. The reason these types of semi-automatic firearms are not off the self is political and not because a ban would violate anyone's second amendment rights. Heller is very clear on this."
 
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is a tank an arm?
not according to Scalia. He doesn't say what a tank is per se, but it is clear that it isn't the arms being talked about in the second amendment. Scalia does draw a distinction between ordinance and arms. ( a cannon for example is ordinance, I think). I wish everyone would take the couple hours out of their day to read his entire damn 64 page opinion and the dissenters opinions too. Its very instructive. Then we wouldn't have to hear any more crap. You don't have to agree with Scalia. But you will have to accept that what he wrote is now the law. That is what Supreme Court Justices do. They settle legal issues. This issue is settled for now. You can't be so restricted in your rights that you can't possess at least some types of operable firearm, unless you fall into a special category: crazy, a felon, etc. But the government, within reasonable limits, is free to define what types of guns you can own and use. That's the crux of Heller. There now. I've distilled it down to the core of the decision. Possibly better than anyone to date. Should I pat myself on the back?

What the District of Columbia was trying to do in Heller's case was keep him from having an operable hand gun, because they had passed a ban on hand guns. If he had such a gun, D.C. said it had to kept with a trigger lock on it. Heller said, " that's bullshit," and the Supreme court agreed.
 
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