S/R Emini Journal

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Quote from volente_00:

This looks like a jerry springer episode on margin ... There is no difference trading 1 contract with a $1000 account or 1 contract with a $4000 account as long as you have the same money managment. Without proper discipline it really does not matter how much money you allocate for each contract.
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Hey Vol 00,

Welcome to the party. Depending on your trading personality and style of trading, there's a huge difference between trading 1 contract with a $1,000 margin (performance bond) or $4,000 maring (performance bond).

One $ amount is going to require tight scalps to make your dough (which I know you can do), the other $ amount is more appropriate for trying to catch the intra-day trend (and may be held for overnight or longer), which once again, I know you can do.

Oh yeah, one dollar amount has an almost negligible risk-of-ruin, and if a position or two goes against you (uh, it's bound to happens sometime :eek: ), it's no biggie, whereas with the other $ amount ..., regardless, I don't really know of anyone who trades with $500 perfomance bond and has not blown out their account, though it seems that brandon12 knows lots of traders who do it, like, everyday (talk about LOL, hell, ROTFLMAO hysterically!).

You vary your margin by the type of trade you are taking and/or the setup, this money management technique probably gives an insane positive expectation on your trades, and if you don't, you should - thanks for the information bro.

Later,

JJ
 
I'd like to post a quick reply on how I do money management, just adding my input here quickly.

I usually just use a fixed percentage of my account that I want at risk at one time, since really our first goal should be to preserve our capital. For example if I'm trading YM with a 20-pt stop with $20K in the account and I want to risk no more than 2% of my equity, then my max trade size is 4 cars.

I agree that the reason most new futures traders blow up is they see that $500 margin and think they can trade 10 cars on a $5K account!
 
Quote from JimmyJam:

30k @ max 2k per contract = 15 contracts. Check

1 pt per day = 5 pts per week. Check - just breaking it down

15 contracts x 5 pts per week = 75 pts per week. Check

1 pt ES = $50.00 Check

75pts per week x $50 = $3,750. Check

Lets say you trade, oh 40 weeks out of the year, so;

40 x $3,750 = $150,000. Check

That's how you do the math, brandon12.
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I actually almost did 1 pt per day (off by 1 pt) over at my thread Trading the Pivots, heh, that is sooooo not an advertisment!

And as my trading bros over here pointed out, I made at least a couple of screwy moves (it's a brand new system, I'm working out the kinks and gaining expereince with it, and I was trying to be right instead of just trading the system).

But even with those miss-steps, I still made 14 pts in 15 days, so I don't think that 1 pt per day expectation is "too much out of the realm of normality" ... and it isn't even my idea anywho, I got the idea of trying to average 1 pt per day after reading a post by romik.

Gotta go pay some bills.

Later,

JJ
 

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Quote from ndjeff7:

I agree that the reason most new futures traders blow up is they see that $500 margin and think they can trade 10 cars on a $5K account!
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... and one more thing.

Yeah, I know I did!

:D :D :( :eek:

... that's why I'm so adamantly against it.
 
Wow got off track here. The initial argument here was that if you avg 30-50% a year on your 30k or 50k or whatever you have in your account you're doing very well. And them jimmy jam shows me some out of this world 500% returns on a 30k account. I'm still saying the chances of doing this type of return year in and year out are about the same chances of winning the lottery. And yes i'll play 40 cars on a 30k account because i have substantial money in cash to back me up.Why would i want to leave over 30k in a non insured non interest paying account?JIMMY JAM I'VE UP PED MY OFFER TO 100K CASH TO YOU IF YOU CAN SHOW ME YOU'VE MADE 150K A YEAR FOR 5 STRAIGHT YEARS ON A 30K ACCOUNT. YOU ACTED LIKE IT WAS EASY TO DO SO GO AHEAD AND TAKE MY MONEY
 
Quote from JimmyJam:

Yeah, yeah yeah.

You backtracked hard after Gary agreed with my money management.

http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=69230&perpage=6&pagenumber=661

As far as the rest is concerned, your noobishness speaks for itself (traders won't keep more than $30k in a regulated US brokerage acount after the RefCo incident ...)

As far as showing you something, come on dimwit, this is an anynomous forum, if I won't show my trading methodology and won't makes live calls based on aforemetioned methodology, I sure as heck won't show anything else.

P.S. Gary agreed with you because he didn't want to hurt your feelings, he feels that if your complete lack of knowledge of trading futs and curreinces is exposed then other newfolk won't want to engage in posting.

P.P.S. I try to keep a still tounge, but you just got it all wrong, as in, you don't know anything.
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As the insults start flying this thread will become like so many of the others on ET. Why don't we nip it in the bud right now? For a business where you have to accept being wrong so frequently, we would all do so well to carry that through to our personal lives as well. It really does not matter who is right or who is wrong...who knows more than the other etc. What matters is that the thread is productive and benefits those who contribute and those who want to quietly sit and learn.
 
Quote from ndjeff7:


I agree that the reason most new futures traders blow up is they see that $500 margin and think they can trade 10 cars on a $5K account!
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Yep, this sucked me in early on as well. Coming from a stock and option background I never used margin before. I had always heard don't do it but never really understood why. It didn't take long to figure it out. I already told you guys about my big blowout and most of it was because I used all the margin I had. That and I was too stupid to use a hard stop. I though if I got in trouble I could pull the trigger and get out. But I froze and lost over 80% of my account in one day on one trade.

Now I don't have any problem with trading more contracts in a day just don't risk it all on one trade. There have been days where I was on a roll and lets say I had 20 trading bullets a day or 10K in my account. I did trade all of them. I just broke my account in 1/4's and made 4 trades with 5 contracts. I don't do that anymore because my account is good enough that one trade a day getting me 2 points per contract is plenty and I am very happy with that. But each person is going to figure their account their way and at the end of the day you have to decide how much you are willing to risk. For some people 5K was hard enough to raise so that they can open an account. I would say don't start out with more than 1 contract. For others 20K is no problem so if they start out with 5 and understand the risk. That is fine also. Me, I wanted to build my account quickly and understood the risk and I took it. I also paid the price for doing it. I still tend to be aggressive on each trade and that is why I will accept 1.5 points if I need to.
 
Quote from brandon12:

...YOU ACTED LIKE IT WAS EASY TO DO SO GO AHEAD AND TAKE MY MONEY
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That's OK.

With all this mis-information you're giving and those $500 performance bond margins, I'll let the markets do it.

Hey, look.

I'm sorry if you can't even do as well as I can after a month (excuse me, 3 weeks) of admitedly half-ass trading (but looking to get better and better, if simply to educate folks who don't know any better - but unlike brandon12 here, are willing to listen).

That's your burden, not mine.

Ciao!
 
Lol i had no idea i was talking to a guy with 3 weeks exp. I've traded 10's of thousands of es's and you got the gall to school me? I'm very sorry to the board but if i knew i was arguing with a 3 week trader i'd have shut my mouth. my bad
 
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