S/R Emini Journal

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Quote from 4re:

Let me get back with you this afternoon on it. I am scheduled in surgery in about an hour so I got to get going. I think I already have it figured out but i want to see how it matches up on my Profit charts.
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It's the EuroFx and trades on the CME (read: highly regulated and THE currency pair to trade). I just wanted to give you a heads-up so you can pursue it further.

The thing trends, and it only takes a little bit better performance bond than the ES (like say, at least $3k instead of 2k for the ES to control it safely).

Best Regards,

JJ
 
London show me were you make 150k a year off a 30k account?The math looks pretty on paper but it's not reality. If you make 5 times your money on a 30k account each and every year you'd be one of the greatest 5 year investors out there. Sure there's someone out there who's done it but it's as longshot as winning the lottery.I'm not here to argue i'm just informing people that just because futures allow huge leverage doesn't mean your returns on your account over many years will be any better than a stock account. So if you have 30k in your futures account and avg 10k on that thats 33% a year and doing very well. Same as a stock account with 30k making 33%. That's the reality of investing wether it be stocks,options or futures. WHO SAID IT WAS OK TO CONTROL 60 CONTRACTS WITH 30 K? I USED THAT AS AN EXAMPLE. I'M STATING FACTS THAT FEW PEOPLE HAVE OVER 30K IN THERE FUTURES ACCOUNT AND THEREFORE FEW PEOPLE CAN MAKe OVER 30% YEAR IN AND YEAR OUT ON THERE MONEY SO THAT NIXES THE IDEA OF MAKING A LIVING TRADING FUTURES WITH 50K OR LESS. BUT YET YOU'RE TELLING ME YOU CAN MAKE 150K ON A 30K ACCOUNT TRADING CONSERVATIVELY AND I DISAGREE 100%.I'M TALKING CONSISTENTLY YEAR IN YEAR OUT.Hell i can count the # of people on et who have been trading futures full time for 5 years are more much less been profitable in that time frame.
 
Quote from brandon12:

London show me were you make 150k a year off a 30k account?The math looks pretty on paper but it's not reality. If you make 5 times your money on a 30k account each and every year you'd be one of the greatest 5 year investors out there. Sure there's someone out there who's done it but it's as longshot as winning the lottery.I'm not here to argue i'm just informing people that just because futures allow huge leverage doesn't mean your returns on your account over many years will be any better than a stock account. So if you have 30k in your futures account and avg 10k on that thats 33% a year and doing very well. Same as a stock account with 30k making 33%. That's the reality of investing wether it be stocks,options or futures
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You have a good point. But its certainly possible. I just dont think the average - or even above average - trader can keep his emotions in check to be able to do 30k into 150k.
 
Belavia yes it's possible but very unlikely. Being a millionaire from an mlm is possible but not probable. And gary has done a very good job of alerting people how tough futures are long term.
 
Quote from brandon12:

London show me were you make 150k a year off a 30k account?The math looks pretty on paper but it's not reality.
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Oh, I'm willing to bet there are some here who can do it. I know Gary is looking at the math and smiling.

If you make 5 times your money on a 30k account each and every year you'd be one of the greatest 5 year investors out there.
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We aren't investors, we are traders.

Sure there's someone out there who's done it but it's as longshot as winning the lottery.
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More noob talk.

I'm not here to argue ...
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I'm not here to argue either, I'm here to teach basic accounting skills and give new traders a benchmark to reference their performance against ... once again, I see Gary smiling.

i'm just informing people that just because futures allow huge leverage ...
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You got it wrong again chuckles. You're the one talking about huge leverage, and then laughing out loud when I strongly cautioned against it.

doesn't mean your returns on your account over many years will be any better than a stock account.
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Just what I thought, this goes back to what I was saying earlier Gary, the guy doesn't know the game (he's comparing the bucking bronco to the sleek, well trained, well disciplined, beautiful dressage horse as if they were the same animal, they are not). If we were at a poker table brandon12, you'd be the mark.

So if you have 30k in your futures account and avg 10k on that thats 33% a year and doing very well. Same as a stock account with 30k making 33%.
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Please see above. You REALLY don't know the futures game at all, do you?

That's the reality of investing wether it be stocks,options or futures
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I'll repeat this one for the benefit of the newfolk. We aren't investors, we're traders

Well this has been educational (for someone I hope).

Never a dull moment, eh 4re.

Later,

JJ
 
Quote from brandon12:

Gary i agree with all what you and jimmy have said. One should not trade over 6 contracts with a 30k account. Which brings me to my main pt. If you can make 30k on a 30k account each and every year thats 100% on your money which makes you a superstar investor. Which brings me to my whole pt. It's foolish to think one can make a living with a 30k account and unfortunately 90% of people are drawn to futures because of the low amount of capital required and the dreams of riches
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BINGO...I think we are all on the same page here. Personally I don't think that year in and year out I would want to try to live off my traidng account unless I had about 300K or better (which I don't). I think the stress on a person to make more than 30% per year just to get you 100K a year is tremendous. Then you have taxes and insurance and all these things that business owners have to think about piling up on you. Right now while I am building my trading account I am more aggressive and that is why I cherry pick what I consider to be the best and highest probability trades for the day and play it aggresivley then I bank my profits and walk away. We have to do this to build up to the point where we can afford to trade for a living. IMO.

WHAT GARY SAYS ABOVE SURE DOESN'T LOOK LIKE HE THINKS SOMEBODY CAN MAKE 5 TIMES THERE MONEY A YEAR. HE'S QUOTING A REALISTIC 30% AS I SAID WHICH IS 9K ON A 30K ACCOUNT. JIMMY JAM SHOW ME 5 CONSECUTIVE YEARS WERE YOU'VE MADE 150K ON A 30K ACCOUNT AND I'LL SEND YOU ON VACATION ANYWERE IN THE WORLD ON ME FREE
 
Quote from brandon12:

Quote from brandon12:

WHAT GARY SAYS ABOVE SURE DOESN'T LOOK LIKE HE THINKS SOMEBODY CAN MAKE 5 TIMES THERE MONEY A YEAR. HE'S QUOTING A REALISTIC 30% AS I SAID WHICH IS 9K ON A 30K ACCOUNT. JIMMY JAM SHOW ME 5 CONSECUTIVE YEARS WERE YOU'VE MADE 150K ON A 30K ACCOUNT AND I'LL SEND YOU ON VACATION ANYWERE IN THE WORLD ON ME FREE
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Yeah, yeah yeah.

You backtracked hard after Gary agreed with my money management.

http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=69230&perpage=6&pagenumber=661

As far as the rest is concerned, your noobishness speaks for itself (traders won't keep more than $30k in a regulated US brokerage acount after the RefCo incident ...)

As far as showing you something, come on dimwit, this is an anynomous forum, if I won't show my trading methodology and won't makes live calls based on aforemetioned methodology, I sure as heck won't show anything else.

P.S. Gary agreed with you because he didn't want to hurt your feelings, he feels that if your complete lack of knowledge of trading futs and curreinces is exposed then other newfolk won't want to engage in posting.

P.P.S. I try to keep a still tounge, but you just got it all wrong, as in, you don't know anything.
 
Here this one allways works.

"OK brandon12, you are correct.

Everything you said is correct and pretty much on the target, especially the comments where you equate stocks to futs to currencies.

Your comments on money management, flip-flopping though they were, are also correct ... and yeah, I know lots of ("people on here do use there $500 margins") [sic] also.

Later,

JJ
 
This looks like a jerry springer episode on margin.
This is how I use margin. I take the max I am willing to lose on any one trade. Multiply that x 2. Subtract it from the amount in your account. Then divide by 500. I have traded 40 before with only 25k. I have traded 10 with only 6k. It all boils down to your risk tolerance. As far as returns, you have to understand that If you take 2 points on 1 contract with a $500 margin, yes you made 20% on your money, but in reality you only returned $100 on a $65000 position. There is no difference trading 1 contract with a $1000 account or 1 contract with a $4000 account as long as you have the same money managment. Without proper discipline it really does not matter how much money you allocate for each contract.
 
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