S/R Emini Journal

[JimmyJam]

So Gary,

I've been checking this bad boy out over the weekend.

I love to gather as much info as I can, so I'm going to need to do a lot of reading up on it, but why don't you put S/R some lines on this chart, and then use whatever trend identifier you like to measure its trendiness, then look at the contract specs (at $12.50 a tick sames as ES for the large EuroFX).

Do you see what I see?

Later

JJ

 

[4re]

Quote from brandon12:

Gary i agree with all what you and jimmy have said. One should not trade over 6 contracts with a 30k account. Which brings me to my main pt. If you can make 30k on a 30k account each and every year thats 100% on your money which makes you a superstar investor. Which brings me to my whole pt. It's foolish to think one can make a living with a 30k account and unfortunately 90% of people are drawn to futures because of the low amount of capital required and the dreams of riches

BINGO...I think we are all on the same page here. Personally I don't think that year in and year out I would want to try to live off my traidng account unless I had about 300K or better (which I don't). I think the stress on a person to make more than 30% per year just to get you 100K a year is tremendous. Then you have taxes and insurance and all these things that business owners have to think about piling up on you. Right now while I am building my trading account I am more aggressive and that is why I cherry pick what I consider to be the best and highest probability trades for the day and play it aggresivley then I bank my profits and walk away. We have to do this to build up to the point where we can afford to trade for a living. IMO.

 

[brandon12]

London i didn't say all couldn't handle the increased contract size but most can't. You do agree that if you have a 30k futures account if you make 30k or 100% thats an incredible year?

 

[4re]

Quote from JimmyJam:

So Gary,

I've been checking this bad boy out over the weekend.

I love to gather as much info as I can, so I'm going to need to do a lot of reading up on it, but why don't you put S/R some lines on this chart, and then use whatever trend identifier you like to measure its trendiness, then look at the contract specs (at $12.50 a tick sames as ES for the large EuroFX).

Do you see what I see?

Later

JJ

Let me get back with you this afternoon on it. I am scheduled in surgery in about an hour so I got to get going. I think I already have it figured out but i want to see how it matches up on my Profit charts.

 

[brandon12]

Nice note gary that sums it all up . Unless you have substantial 6 figures don't even attempt to trade full time for your living. Build up your account then attempt. Futures appear so easy and sexy on the outside but on the inside they're wicked if you're not disciplined

 

[4re]

Quote from brandon12:

Nice note gary that sums it all up . Unless you have substantial 6 figures don't even attemp to trade full time for your living. Build up your account then attempt. Futures appear so easy and sexy on the outside but on the inside they're wicked if you're not disciplined

They sure do look easy and the bad thing is they are addictive.

 

[4re]

Quote from JimmyJam:

So Gary,

I've been checking this bad boy out over the weekend.

I love to gather as much info as I can, so I'm going to need to do a lot of reading up on it, but why don't you put S/R some lines on this chart, and then use whatever trend identifier you like to measure its trendiness, then look at the contract specs (at $12.50 a tick sames as ES for the large EuroFX).

Do you see what I see?

Later

JJ

Hey JJ,
I tried to look it up but I don't get it on esignal or profit. Can you post me a chart with about 10 days worth of data on this one. Actually the farther out you can get me the better.

Thanks,
G

 

[LondonUSTrader]

Quote from brandon12:

London i didn't say all couldn't handle the increased contract size but most can't. You do agree that if you have a 30k futures account if you make 30k or 100% thats an incredible year?

I don't look at % returns on futures. I personally think that is unimportant.

To me it is all about making consistent monetary risk adjusted returns every week. And over time increasing your contract size as much as possible in line with a risk formula that always makes you feel comfortable with your positions. The only time I even look at my P&L is to make sure I am in line with my risk model.

It is also a fact that many people cannot handle the so called risk of trading large contract size.

That is why you need to very gradually increase contract size in line with a level that you feel comfortable trading.

As for the issue of uninsured futures brokers going bust. That is possible, but not that likely. If you are that worried about it you should work for a prop firm where you can trade 100+ contracts on a 70% split, if you are good. I have known people to get to that level in a year or two of trading prop.

I really don't consider it much of an issue. The probability of you losing your customer funds is very low even when there are problems. No one lost funds on Refco. When Marty Schwartz's broker went bust with his $1m in T bonds did he lose it all? No, he got bailed out by the clearer. Not to say it can't happen, but it is unlikely. There was a firm that went down a few years ago in London and all the traders lost their money, but that was a very rare case.

Nothing like futures to engender fear...

 

[LondonUSTrader]

Quote from brandon12:

Nice note gary that sums it all up . Unless you have substantial 6 figures don't even attempt to trade full time for your living. Build up your account then attempt. Futures appear so easy and sexy on the outside but on the inside they're wicked if you're not disciplined

You would either want to trade prop or have a grubstake of $100k min before contemplating giving it a go full-time.

However, I also believe if you were available for the full morning or afternoon session, that would be enough to make a good income while still working. I guess if you live in LA (morning) or London (evening) that is the way to go...

Also if you trade part-time, you release some of the pressure because it doesn't really matter if things go badly as it's just extra income. Whereas if things go bad working as a pro trader it is a big issue.

Ultimately, discipline is the key. In most human endeavours, most have no discipline.

 

[JimmyJam]

Quote from brandon12:

London i didn't say all couldn't handle the increased contract size but most can't. You do agree that if you have a 30k futures account if you make 30k or 100% thats an incredible year?

30k @ max 2k per contract = 15 contracts. Check

1 pt per day = 5 pts per week. Check - just breaking it down

15 contracts x 5 pts per week = 75 pts per week. Check

1 pt ES = $50.00 Check

75pts per week x $50 = $3,750. Check

Lets say you trade, oh 40 weeks out of the year, so;

40 x $3,750 = $150,000. Check

That's how you do the math, brandon12.
***
Hey London,

I don't agree with anything the guy says either.

If you read over his posts you'll see that what he says lacks basic experience, sound judgement, basic accounting principles, sound math, a good understanding of the nature of compounding your returns, and pretty much violates every written rule of good trading (and the comment about controlling 60 contracts with 30k is like saying "well, if pigs could fly", you and I both that's never gonna happen, that's why you interjected so nicely).

And the comment about keeping over $30k in an uninsured futures account shows amazing lack of knowledge of the difference between a reputable retail brokerage and a FX bucket shop. Experienced traders know that's the unregulated wild-wild west of trading. That's why I said "6E" to Gary and not the Currency Pair.

The only conclusion that I can come to is that the guy's a screaming noob. I just don't believe he trades 1 contract, much less "60 with 30k".

Hey, I would've PM'd you, but you don't allow messages.

Later,

Jimmy Jam

P.S. Hey Gary, I know your thread is flame retardent, but you have a lot of newbies who follow you (and I keep sending them your way, because I don't have the time to explain what an e-mini is ... sorry ). I can't let anyone reading this thread think that anyone who would say that it's OK to control 60 contracts with 30K, and then equate the risk of an FX Bucket Shop (what a bunch of wh*r*s) to a US markets regulated brokerage firm even remotely knows what the hell they are talking about.