Russian sanctions approved by Congress halted by white house

[Tsing Tao]

Nope, it's just a bunch of what ifs that don't address the original problem.

I have several points.

First, calling Trump a Russian puppet (your original post) because he did not agree with and want to sign a document that came to him from Congress - regardless of how well it was supported in Congress - isn't exactly fair. He may feel that the bill is a joke, or that the sanctions would not work, or are unfair, or that there is no proof warranting them, or a whole host of things. At the end of the day, Trump is the President and has every right to not support legislation that comes from Congress. Other Presidents have done so. Obama vetoed a similar piece of legislation against Saudi Arabia, but that doesn't mean he was a Saudi puppet.

Second, no proof has been shown that the electoral process is threatened. At all. Zero. Bots repeating stuff on Twitter doesn't challenge a country's electoral process. Hacking voting machines would, but that never happened. Therefore, the sanctions which are based on "meddling" really are a joke.

Lastly, it is a President's prerogative to veto anything, for any reason. Just as it is Congress's prerogative to overrule him with 2/3rds majority.

 

[Cuddles]

I have several points.

First, calling Trump a Russian puppet (your original post) because he did not agree with and want to sign a document that came to him from Congress - regardless of how well it was supported in Congress - isn't exactly fair. He may feel that the bill is a joke, or that the sanctions would not work, or are unfair, or that there is no proof warranting them, or a whole host of things. At the end of the day, Trump is the President and has every right to not support legislation that comes from Congress. Other Presidents have done so. Obama vetoed a similar piece of legislation against Saudi Arabia, but that doesn't mean he was a Saudi puppet.

Second, no proof has been shown that the electoral process is threatened. At all. Zero. Bots repeating stuff on Twitter doesn't challenge a country's electoral process. Hacking voting machines would, but that never happened. Therefore, the sanctions which are based on "meddling" really are a joke.

Lastly, it is a President's prerogative to veto anything, for any reason. Just as it is Congress's prerogative to overrule him with 2/3rds majority.

The whole no puppet thing was me being facetious and how it raises red flags when the guy is defending no collusion yet goes and helps the alleged colluders any way.

Proof of messing with the electoral process is clearly there. You may not think that misinformation and propaganda works to sway public opinion, but the entirety of the cold war was fought through satellite states using such tactics to topple regimes. Sounds to me like you're being disingenuously obtuse on this.

I'll agree to your third point, with the caveat that if Trump is trying to sway public opinion on this topic and reduce judicial ammunition, he's doing a terrible job.

 

[Tsing Tao]

The whole no puppet thing was me being facetious and how it raises red flags when the guy is defending no collusion yet goes and helps the alleged colluders any way.

Alright, well if you were just joshin', then forget I said anything about that.

Proof of messing with the electoral process is clearly there. You may not think that misinformation and propaganda works to sway public opinion, but the entirety of the cold war was fought through satellite states using such tactics to topple regimes. Sounds to me like you're being disingenuously obtuse on this.

Proof is there? Because some "bots" posted stuff on twitter? You don't think there were Hillary "bots" posting stuff to sway opinion in the same way there were Trump bots? Please. Everyone, with every set of interest is trying to sway public opinion. That's the whole point of political campaigns. Voters have to research what they consider truth. Democracy requires effort.

I'll agree to your third point, with the caveat that if Trump is trying to sway public opinion on this topic and reduce judicial ammunition, he's doing a terrible job.

Who knows what his point is? I certainly don't. But he has the right to do it.

 

[CaptainObvious]

Alright, well if you were just joshin', then forget I said anything about that.



Proof is there? Because some "bots" posted stuff on twitter? You don't think there were Hillary "bots" posting stuff to sway opinion in the same way there were Trump bots? Please. Everyone, with every set of interest is trying to sway public opinion. That's the whole point of political campaigns.



Who knows what his point is? I certainly don't. But he has the right to do it.

"Proof is there? Because some "bots" posted stuff on twitter? You don't think there were Hillary "bots" posting stuff to sway opinion in the same way there were Trump bots? Please. Everyone, with every set of interest is trying to sway public opinion. That's the whole point of political campaigns."

Baaaam. Drop the mic. Leftists so completely lost in their delusion they just can't admit this simple and painfully obvious FACT.

 

[Cuddles]

Proof is there? Because some "bots" posted stuff on twitter? You don't think there were Hillary "bots" posting stuff to sway opinion in the same way there were Trump bots? Please. Everyone, with every set of interest is trying to sway public opinion. That's the whole point of political campaigns.

Were these bots and trolls from a foreign government though? This is essentially a campaign donation by foreign officials in the guise of "media". Do you think there is no evidence to Flynn's and Pop's charges/cooperation? Manafort?

 

[Tsing Tao]

Were these bots and trolls from a foreign government though? This is essentially a campaign donation by foreign officials in the guise of "media". Do you think there is no evidence to Flynn's and Pop's charges/cooperation? Manafort?

These Russian "bots" as they've been called posted "propaganda" both in favor of and against Clinton. Both in favor of and against Trump. They were trying to disrupt the process, but it was no different than any other corporate or sovereign interest doing the exact same thing. Israel, for example. Or Saudi Arabia. Or China. Fuck, even Canada lobbied against Trump on NAFTA.

Giving people opinions and calling it news goes back thousands of years, to Roman times or even before when the Town Crier was a position of note. If people are dumb enough to sit on their couches eating cheetohs while surfing facebook and reading all the bullshit, then that's a problem with the voter, not the electoral process. The process in electing a President is fully in tact and not under threat. This is nothing more than sore losers pushing for vengeance and attempting to illegitimize a sitting President. PERIOD.

 

[Tsing Tao]

Here's an ad the NYT says was from Russia, promoting Bernie.

Here's one supporting the Black Panthers.

Another Bernie one:

One that attacked Trump.

Others...

Here is the NYT article source stating these, and many more both in favor of Trump or in favor of Clinton or Bernie:

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/01/us/politics/russia-2016-election-facebook.html

 

[Cuddles]

Here's an ad the NYT says was from Russia, promoting Bernie.

Here's one supporting the Black Panthers.

Another Bernie one:

One that attacked Trump.

Others...

Here is the NYT article source stating these, and many more both in favor of Trump or in favor of Clinton or Bernie:

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/01/us/politics/russia-2016-election-facebook.html

The fact they spammed Democrat propaganda (in vastly lesser numbers BTW) doesn't make it any more justifiable or safe from retaliatory sanctions.

 

[Tsing Tao]

The fact they spammed Democrat propaganda (in vastly lesser numbers BTW) doesn't make it any more justifiable or safe from retaliatory sanctions.

Propaganda is nothing more than advertising, employed by each campaign, and dozens of sovereign nations around the world in a whole host of world elections. All the time.

Sanctioning one country that did it is highly hypocritical, considering we do it all the time as well. Hell, we do/have done it to Russia.

 

[Cuddles]

Propaganda is nothing more than advertising, employed by each campaign, and dozens of sovereign nations around the world in a whole host of world elections. All the time.

Sanctioning one country that did it is highly hypocritical, considering we do it all the time as well. Hell, we do/have done it to Russia.

You're basically saying there's moral equivalency between a democracy and a dictatorship (the vast counter propaganda pushed by Western intelligence has been on despots).