Russia & Ukraine

UsualName said:
Ukrainians often speak of the disconnect between how the media wants to portray “the Russian people” and the truth of the “common Russian.” I think the Ukrainians understand this better than we do and that “the common Russian” does see a greater Russia that should be ruling over the former bloc states of yesteryear.
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The Ukrainians understand the disconnect because they lived it during the Soviet Union. Almost every Russian/Ukrainian (and other citizen) that wasn't 110% indoctrinated into the Soviet ideology knew they were being lied to. They knew the West wasn't 80% unemployment and alcoholic like they were being told - and that was before the internet and the free flow (relative free flow) of information.

But that's no excuse to make a poll driving a lie that Russians want to attack Poland (which is a lie perpetrated by Ukraine to elicit an action by the West against Russians). I know you said you're not against the Ukrainian lies if it means they hurt Russia, but this is a perfect example of how lies can push greater conflict.
 
Perhaps review your posts throughout the last pages. Do you call that cogent? All I see is self aggrandizing attempts at intellectualism and moral superiority. You point the fingers at others but can't hold your own government accountable. What does Americanism to you even mean? It's defined as "attachment or allegiance to the traditions, institutions, and ideals of the United States". And yes, that's exactly what I am criticizing. Are there not enough own skeletons in the closet to virtue signal? I am criticizing the hypocrisy. To point fingers at others yet to have done the exact same and justify it.

Buy1Sell2 said:
But you have no cogent arguments. Your analysis is biased and rooted in un-Americanism.
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M.W. said:
Perhaps review your posts throughout the last pages. Do you call that cogent? All I see is self aggrandizing attempts at intellectualism and moral superiority. You point the fingers at others but can't hold your own government accountable. What does Americanism to you even mean? It's defined as "attachment or allegiance to the traditions, institutions, and ideals of the United States". And yes, that's exactly what I am criticizing. Are there not enough own skeletons in the closet to virtue signal? I am criticizing the hypocrisy. To point fingers at others yet to have done the exact same and justify it.
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Your posting is absolutely incoherent. ---M.W. will no longer be responded to.
 
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Tsing Tao said:
The Ukrainians understand the disconnect because they lived it during the Soviet Union. Almost every Russian/Ukrainian (and other citizen) that wasn't 110% indoctrinated into the Soviet ideology knew they were being lied to. They knew the West wasn't 80% unemployment and alcoholic like they were being told - and that was before the internet and the free flow (relative free flow) of information.

But that's no excuse to make a poll driving a lie that Russians want to attack Poland (which is a lie perpetrated by Ukraine to elicit an action by the West against Russians). I know you said you're not against the Ukrainian lies if it means they hurt Russia, but this is a perfect example of how lies can push greater conflict.
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So a poll driven by Russian state media using their language about the conflict is suddenly "a lie perpetrated by Ukraine". Let's note once again that polls in Russia are driven to give the Kremlin leaders the results they want to hear. The "Russian people" may not want to attack Poland but the Kremlin leadership damn surely has them next on the list plus the Baltic countries. Putin wants a reunion of the ole' Soviet bloc.

Yes, Ukraine will certainly use the poll results as "propaganda" for their messaging in an attempt to get the West to help them while they are being brutally attacked by Russia. This should not be surprising or unexpected.
 
gwb-trading said:
So a poll driven by Russian state media using their language about the conflict is suddenly "a lie perpetrated by Ukraine". Let's note once again that polls in Russia are driven to give the Kremlin leaders the results they want to hear. The "Russian people" may not want to attack Poland but the Kremlin leadership damn surely has them next on the list plus the Baltic countries. Putin wants a reunion of the ole' Soviet bloc.

Yes, Ukraine will certainly use the poll results as "propaganda" for their messaging in an attempt to get the West to help them while they are being brutally attacked by Russia. This should not be surprising or unexpected.
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Its a lie by the Russians to push one side, then spread by the Ukrainians (who also know it is a lie) to push another narrative. So yeah.
 
Tsing Tao said:
Its a lie by the Russians to push one side, then spread by the Ukrainians (who also know it is a lie) to push another narrative. So yeah.
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Yet it is clear what Putin wants...

Russia-Soviet-simpsons.gif
 
Tsing Tao said:
The Ukrainians understand the disconnect because they lived it during the Soviet Union. Almost every Russian/Ukrainian (and other citizen) that wasn't 110% indoctrinated into the Soviet ideology knew they were being lied to. They knew the West wasn't 80% unemployment and alcoholic like they were being told - and that was before the internet and the free flow (relative free flow) of information.

But that's no excuse to make a poll driving a lie that Russians want to attack Poland (which is a lie perpetrated by Ukraine to elicit an action by the West against Russians). I know you said you're not against the Ukrainian lies if it means they hurt Russia, but this is a perfect example of how lies can push greater conflict.
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When we invaded Iraq our nationalism was very high and polls showed support for the war in the in the mid sixties prior to invasion and into the 70s post invasion.

I do not doubt Russian nationalism is very high right now and can spill over into all kinds of topics. Don’t forget Poland is very much a villain in Russia right now. The Polish have vocally opposed this war, equipped the Ukrainians and even were ready to hand over their Migs until the US stopped the transfer. Russian pundits are on TV vocalizing striking Warsaw with a nuclear weapon and Poland is raising forces as we speak.

We’re the questions asked in the poll reflective of the message the Russian media is feeding the Russian population, yes. I have to ask though, if Russia were to attack Poland would the Russians use similar language to justify attacking Poland? The answer is most likely yes.

Now with that said, I don’t know anything about the methodology of the poll or who conducted it - all I’m saying is that the Russian population right now is probably high as hell with nationalism and would respond to almost any military action favorably.
 
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